Opening hours for disused shop

[bbastin]

It seems like the quest for opening hours (maybe also other ones) is ignoring the disused tag for shops.

Example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1381967#map=18/50.73701/7.10388

[westnordost]

Hmm, shouldn't it be shop=vacant then? I thought disused is for railways and stuff like that.

[bbastin]

I wasn't sure so I did the research. According to the wiki:

Use the disused: lifecycle prefix on tags that relate to features that are in a reasonable state of repair but which are currently unused. Examples include vacant or boarded-up dusty shop buildings or unused parking lots. 1

It seems that vacant is an alternative, though the wiki states that some mappers advice against it. 2

So I guess the best way right now would be to support both alternatives, though I tend towards disused as it seems more versatile and widespread.

This probably should also apply to quests like vegetarian or vegan food, accessibility and probably a whole bunch more not connected to shops at all; I'll keep my eyes open :-)

[padan]

Yes, I am using the disused: lifecycle tag for temporarily closed restaurants too, another example with disused:amenity is node 3665738131: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3665738131

The vegan question could not be answered: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1325524

The lifecycle prefix is the new format, because it allows some of the tags to be "disused:" and specifies exactly which of the tags are affected, while preserving all information of the node, in case it needs to get reactivated: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:disused:#Updating_older_tagging

Possibly one answer to "opening hours", "vegetarian meals", "vegan meals" could be: "This location is currently unused." which would add a "disused:" prefix to the amenity or shop.

According to taginfo, key disused:amenity appears more than 10000 times:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/disused%3Aamenity

It is used mostly for restaurant, pub, water_point, school, cafe, place_of_worship, fast_food, bank, fuel, parking, drinking_water, bar, telephone, pharmacy, hospital.

[westnordost]

Hmm, actually, I looked at taginfo, taginfo just lists 210 elements worldwide with shop=disused (as opposed to 14882 for shop=vacant).

disused:shop=* is something else because it does not use shop as the key.

[matkoniecz]

From looking at https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1381967#map=18/50.73701/7.10388 and https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1319475752/history it seems that opening hours query matched disused:shop=florist or somebody solved quest that was downloaded over 5 moths ago.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1319475752/history was never tagged shop=disused

[padan]

Both examples (from the submitter and mine) are about prefixed disused:shop or disused:amenity key, not about unprefixed shop key. Will StreetComplete display quests for key "disused:shop" too, or for key "shop" only? If quests are displayed for shop=* and amenity=* only, but not for disused:shop=* and not for disused:amenity=* this rather looks like a missing feature (adding disused: lifecycle prefix to unused entities where quests cannot be answered) than a bug.

[westnordost]

It will only display for shop=*. I guess that particular quest was downloaded then over 5 months ago.

[westnordost]

Hmm, actually, if @bbastin would have attempted to answer the question with something, his answer would have been dropped due to that

1. a version conflict arises on upload
2. on automatically resolving the conflict, the app notices that the quest does not apply to the element anymore (since there is no shop key)

Leaving notes is independent of that. I could implement that on leaving a note, the app always first checks if the quest still applies to this element and drop the note otherwise. But I am not sure if this would be a good idea.

[matkoniecz]

Maybe drop note if both

• conflict appears
• quest was based on data downloaded long time ago (over 1 month?)

notes about data changed months ago are confusing and are less likely to be useful

[westnordost]

Then maybe it would be better to instead automatically drop quests (not just invalidate) that were downloaded more that X months ago (even solved ones?).
There might even be a ticket for that here somewhere.

[matkoniecz]

There might even be a ticket for that here somewhere.

In #766 I proposed to silently delete quests older than 1 month.

[westnordost]

Jo, that's it. So I will close this issue because this here would be not or very much less of an issue if #766 was implemented.

[TheRadialActive]

I would like to focus on the disused tag again, like @padan pointed out:

this rather looks like a missing feature (adding disused: lifecycle prefix to unused entities where quests cannot be answered) than a bug.

In our city we have a lot of amenities and shops, that are vacant, but are still in OSM as "active". So I have to add a note all the time, which is in my view, not as nice, as the workflow @padan proposed.

[matkoniecz]

The problem is that deleting shop that is gone is tricky.

Sometimes entire node/way/relation should be deleted (shop in a mall), sometimes only shop tag should be deleted (shop tagged on outline of a building), sometimes shop tag and some additional tags like opening_hours should be deleted.

Sometimes address tags should be deleted (shop duplicates stress for a building), sometimes address tags should be not deleted (shop on sole adress node for a building).

Sometimes both shop and building should be deleted (demolished kiosk).

Etc etc

I planned to implement this to eliminate spamming several "this does not exists" notes on each walk but I discarded this idea due to significant complexity of the issue.