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Does SC 1.2.1 require the alternative for time-based media for video-only to be visible? #3642
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Some personal thought that might help? Potentially not. The alternative for time-based media, when it's in the form of a text transcript is sometimes offered on a separate page or as a separate document, and linked to near the video. In that case, the alternative is definitely not 'visible' near the video if visibility is interpreted as "can be observed visually". But, once the transcript is accessed, wherever it lives, I would think that it needs to be available visibly. So:
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I'd say, more generally: since for images / non-text content in general, having something like |
Agree but think also that a transcription can be useful also for other AT, e.g. AT for cognitive disabilities that can simplify languages. So due that for alternative for image there is a specific attribute (that can be catched by AT), for transcript or description there are no specific attributes so IMHO shall be percepible not only by people that cannot see video. |
The same argument to put things off-screen could be applied to other criteria as well but it's not the intent of the criteria in my opinion. Putting it another way- for 1.2.1 - an audio file could have off-screen text as the transcript used by people who are deaf or hard of hearing? That wouldn't be acceptable? The flip side is why would low vision folks be excluded from having visible alternative for video only content? |
why should they be excluded from having visible alternative for |
I think the different between an image with alt and a media alternative is the length of it. A media alternative is defined as a document. |
I definitely agree that image text alternatives aren't a one-to-one comparison with multimedia text alternatives. Text alternative for multimedia (like a transcript) doesn't match well to something like alt text, due to the potential length of the transcript. Having a transcript read out the same way as alt text gets read out by screen readers would be pretty disastrous, as alt text is read out all at once. For an hour long piece of multimedia, there's the potential for several hundred lines of transcript material. |
We are talking about video-only, not multimedia contents. For multimedia there are usually captions and audio-descriptions. |
Thanks for the note, I definitely missed that distinction. My bad there! |
Trying to summarize this thread:
Please thumbs up, or thumbs down with comment to continue the discussion. |
I agree conceptually, but thumbs-downed only because I think we need to be careful about the terminology; I think for that summary to be accurate, you'd need to replace the term "text alternative" with "alternative for time-based media". Normatively, "text alternative" (as used by 1.1.1) and "alternative for time-based media" (as used by 1.2.1) are not (necessarily) the same thing. For prerecorded video-only time-based media that:
... I would interpret the combination of the two SCs like this:
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Good catch @dbjorge as the context is 1.2.1 and alternative for time-based media. With the context of the original question, I do not agree that 1.2.1 is even applicable. I would prefer a better real-world example of invisible text used as the alternative for time time-based media, as I am skeptical that it happens. |
Can you explain why you think 1.2.1 wouldn't be applicable to that example? You talked in this comment about the possibility of that example being a "pure decoration", but even if that was the case for the example in question, that would only exempt it from 1.1.1, not 1.2.1. (edit: and even for 1.1.1, I think the normative text there is actually a bit ambiguous about what the requirement is for something that meets multiple of the special scenarios simultaneously, like a purely decorative video would - I presume the intent is for the "decorative" requirement to take priority, but I don't think that's actually well-specified in the SC) |
This one surprised me. I very much thought this was required, but thinking through it carefully, I think there is one pretty glaring problem with this; Animated gifs. If 1.2.1 required visible alternatives, then 1. either animated gifs need a visible alternative, or 2. something about animated gifs would make not quality as "video-only" content.
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I agree - I think normatively 1.2.1 requires visually presented descriptions of animated gifs, which surprises me and strikes me as possibly-unintended. |
@dbjorge I don't think I agree with your conclusion that "provided" means "to all users". 1.2.2 says captions need to be provided. I don't think that means captions need to be accessible to screen readers. |
In the case of captions specifically, the "captions" definition explicitly says "visual and/or text alternative" - I think that's the mechanism by which captions are allowed to be visual without a text alternative. I looked around for other cases where we use "provides" or "provided" in SC text without that sort of qualification and clarify the scope/interpretation in an understanding doc. Some cases are as ambiguous as this one is (eg, 3.3.3), but 3.3.2 is a good example where the SC uses similar language ("Labels or instructions are provided when content requires user input") and its understanding doc clarifies explicitly that our interpretation is that this wording means labels and instructions must be "presented to all users, not just those using assistive technologies." (see 4th paragraph of Intent section) |
Since WCAG allows for open captions this may be the case - but captions that are not accessible to screen readers will not be available to people who are deafblind and need them in braille - so this is something should be addressed in WCAG 3. |
I realize that an appeal to consequences is a logical fallacy, but it cannot be the case that WCAG conformance requires that all animated gifs have an alternative for time based media comparable to what is required for silent movies and slide shows. From 1.1.1, emphasis added:
If the text alternative provided to meet 1.1.1 A text alternative that serves the equivalent purpose is more than what 1.2.1 requires, which is merely
No. The adjective of |
BRUCE, I see the problem you're trying to solve. But I don't follow your logic. According to this, I could just provide a descriptive identification for a movie and it would automatically meet 1.2.1. There is nothing about the statement in 1.1.1 that says that providing a descriptive identifier"serves equivalent purpose". It only says that you at least need to do that for 1.1.1 knowing that 1.2.1 will be following and require more. And meeting One success criteria of course doesn't mean that all other related success criteria are met. Having said that, I see the problem you're trying to solve, and, we should try to figure out how to do it. But I don't see how your current logic works without opening up a Pandora's box of unintended consequences for longer clips. Unfortunately, we don't have anything here about the length of the material and I think that is what you're trying to address Comment back if I'm missing something... |
No, descriptive identification is the minimum requirement for not providing a text alternative that serves the equivalent purpose of the the non-text content.
I concur completely that descriptive identification is not serving the the equivalent purpose.
@mraccess77 also suggested length of the video might be the trigger for requiring something like a screen play versus something like alt text. I don't disagree with the practicality of the approach, but it's not supported by the normative phrasing. It is also possible for a few seconds of video-only media to convey a significant amount of information! This is why I am making the case to assess the quality of the text alternative provided for meeting 1.1.1. If that text alternative is only providing descriptive identification, that satisfies1.1.1 but not 1.2.1. If that text alternative serves the equivalent purpose, that satisfies both 1.1.1 and 1.2.1. |
Getting back to a couple of @dbjorge points:
I am sure you agree that pure decoration is written so that it can be applied to non-text content other than images. I recognize it is not an exemption within normative phrasing of 1.2, but there are other situations where auditors have to make inference and use common sense. I am optimistic we might arrive at something that can be added to Understanding without contradicting normative phrasing.
Agreed on both points. When I teach 1.1.1, I focus on descriptive identification versus text that serves the equivalent purpose. Pure decoration is interesting since null alt is the equivalent purpose. There are also many situations were descriptive identification is the text equivalent. But that kind of nuance is not part of "wcag 101"! |
Official Working Group Response... From SC 1.2.1:
The definition for alternative for time-based media (emphasis added):
I am glossing over "document" to focus on "correctly sequenced text descriptions" which is just qualifying that the words of text are in a sensible order and sufficiently descriptive. The definition for text:
Nothing there specifying "visible". I note that this is consistent with alt text not (typically) being visible. No, SC 1.2.1 does not require alternative for time-based media for video-only to be visible. |
I agree that this probably has to be our interpretation assuming we want to avoid visual alternatives being required for animated gifs, which I think we're in agreement on; I don't think we have any normative mechanism to say "sometimes it needs to be visual and sometimes not". When we update the understanding doc to clarify this position, it'd be nice to make sure we also clarify with an example that it isn't required for the text alternative and the alternative for text based media to be the same thing, and that for videos that are particularly long or complex, it might aid usability to separate them. |
Can ACT move forward this decision? |
Discussed on TF call 4/12 and, we have consensus on the answer to the substantive questions. Per our process, TF facilitators won't close this issue until AG WG gets a chance to review. Official Working Group sent for WG approval 4/16: On the original question:
No, it does not.
Yes please. |
Closed as a result of the Official Working Group Response being reviewed and adoped |
Hello,
This question originates from ACT Rules Issue 1815: Should the text alternative for a video without audio always be visually present?
For reference:
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