kmud-110218-inflammation-2.vtt

WEBVTT

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 Thank you.

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 ...including chemtrails.

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 Tune in and call in this Sunday at 1.30 p.m. to Edge of the Herd.

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 And as always, the views and opinions expressed throughout the broadcast air

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 are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the station, its staff, or underwriters.

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 At this time, we'll be made available other viewpoints.

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 Thank you for joining us.

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 And, you know, for the record, that was not my view.

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 They made me say that, and I think that is the one thing that the station does have as its own view,

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 is that the views are yours.

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 Anyway, here comes your doctor.

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 Welcome to this month's Ask Your Herb Doctor.

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 My name's Andrew Murray.

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 My name's Sarah Johannison Murray.

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 For those of you who perhaps have never listened to our shows,

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 which run every third Friday of the month from 7 till 8 p.m.,

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 we are both licensed medical herbalists who train in England

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 and graduated there with a degree in herbal medicine.

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 We run a clinic in Garboville where we consult with clients about a wide range of conditions,

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 and we manufacture all our own certified organic herbal extracts,

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 which are either grown on our CCF certified herb farm

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 or which are sourced from other USA certified organic suppliers.

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 So you're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD-Garboville, 91.1 FM,

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 and from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o'clock,

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 you're invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated

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 to this month's mixed topic of hormone replacement therapy,

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 estrogen, along with the inflammatory effects of estrogen,

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 as well as some other popularly accepted hormones like serotonin, melatonin, and 5-HTP,

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 so we can discuss the roles of those particular materials in our bodies

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 and why they're not actually that good for us.

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 So once again, we're very pleased to be joined by Dr. Ray Peat,

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 who will be sharing his research and knowledge surrounding these topics.

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 The number here if you live in the area is 923 3911,

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 or if you live outside the area, the toll-free number is 1800 KMUD RAD.

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 That's 1-800-568-3723.

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 We can also be reached toll-free on 1-888-WBM-ERB

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 for further questions during normal business hours Monday through Friday.

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 So science, whilst responsible for many excellent breakthroughs,

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 is unfortunately subject to the same scandals that beset many excellent thoughts.

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 Whilst studying physiology myself, I, like many others,

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 was subject to what I now understand as an indoctrination, if you will,

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 into an erroneous state of pseudo-fact,

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 and that one of those things was the receptor model used in physiology,

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 with one particular hormone, namely estrogen,

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 which will be the subject partly, at least of tonight's discussion with Dr. Peat,

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 this being a perpetrator of much deceit on the behalf of a big pharma.

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 Why was HRT so promoted and how did the truth behind estrogen effects get so covered up?

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 Well, this question and many other answers will be opened up in tonight's Ask Your Herb Doctor,

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 including the facts surrounding the melatonin, serotonin, 5-HT craze.

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 So thank you once again, Dr. Peat, for joining us on the show.

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 OK.

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 Again, as always, we always get comments from people after the show.

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 I know a lot of people that listen to the show have either emailed us or contacted us

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 regarding information that you've been sharing

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 and how they can get hold of more information so they can be a little bit better informed.

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 Now, as usual, some people will have tuned into the show and maybe have never heard of you.

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 Would you just open up with your background, your scientific background?

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 OK. As a kid, I was interested in science.

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 I would read old medical books and encyclopedias and such,

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 and I very early got the impression that education was largely indoctrination.

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 I found that literature as an undergraduate was a field where I could see the actual evidence,

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 the material that we were studying without interpretation of the professors.

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 So it was years and years later that I finally decided to go to graduate school in science

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 and I realized that I could get through it without having to fight with the professors.

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 I could just be quiet and do what I wanted to do.

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 So I enrolled at the University of Oregon in the biology department,

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 starting as specializing in nerve biology.

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 I was interested in how the brain could do things like handling language and images and such,

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 and I saw that the whole direction of the brain biology was towards a very reductionist computer analogy.

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 And looking around the department, I saw that the other end of the organism,

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 the reproductive physiology, was much more scientific,

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 and so I shifted over to that specialization.

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 My professor, if I would get unusual results, would say,

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 "Well, if it's repeatable, just go ahead."

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 And the nerve biology section, if the results or the interpretation were a little off,

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 you had to throw away the evidence.

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 Okay.

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 Okay, well, that word "indoctrination" I think is a very good point to,

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 a very good place rather to start tonight's expose.

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 I know the, gosh, the scandal surrounding HRT that was kind of revealed, as it were,

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 mainstream not too long ago.

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 It is a very good place to begin tonight's talk.

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 In terms of indoctrination and the models that were so popular then, and probably still are now,

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 when I was studying the whole receptor-ligand interaction was dogmatic,

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 and a particular compound elicited a particular effect when it was bound to an enzyme or to a cell.

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 Surrounding estrogen, the estrogen receptor,

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 you actually have a very good understanding of the background enzymatically,

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 how it was before it was taken over by,

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 and unfortunately, I know it sounds, it's another conspiracy, as it were,

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 but it's the truth in terms of pre-1940s with the enzyme,

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 the people studying enzyme interactions were then effectively taken over by Big Pharma

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 and corporate manufacture for want of increase from their products.

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 And the whole estrogen receptor is a bit of a non-entity, I understand.

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 Yeah, it was 1970 when I was working on my dissertation,

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 and I was studying the metabolism of the uterus in aging animals

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 and trying to understand why in middle age infertility came about.

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 And the particular metabolic studies that I was doing

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 corresponded to increased estrogenic stimulation with aging.

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 And that led me, since all of the current textbooks in the 1960s were saying that

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 menopause is when the ovaries wear out and stop producing estrogen.

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 So I read way back to about 1900 and to the 1940s and '50s,

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 and I saw there was a sudden change in 1942 all through the 1930s

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 when my thesis advisor was a student into the 1940s.

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 His thesis advisor was Richard Blandau,

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 who was later at the University of Washington Medical School.

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 And Soderwald and Blandau were among the people who were studying

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 the effects of excess estrogen on the uterus,

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 and they showed that if you gave a greater dose,

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 increasing amounts of estrogen caused miscarriage at earlier,

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 and the smallest dose would cause miscarriage at a very early stage.

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 And if you waited until very late in the pregnancy, it would take a bigger dose,

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 but it was a very continuous-graded effect in which the estrogen flight excess

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 would be sufficient to kill the developing embryo.

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 And this was going on all through the late 1930s into the 1940s,

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 and the hormones of the ovary were identified in the mid-1930s

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 as the very major substance produced in the ovary was progesterone,

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 and estrogen was a minor substance.

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 But it turned out that other people doing research on how estrogen worked at this time

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 saw that soot, just put a spoon in a candle flame and then extract it in a solvent,

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 you could get hundreds of different estrogenic substances out of just soot.

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 And this was wonderful for the drug industries because everyone could find an estrogen patent,

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 but there was only one natural progesterone,

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 and so that was not a viable drug because no one had a patent on it.

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 So by 1942, the 13 major estrogen companies had their synthetic estrogens,

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 and the situation scientifically was that estrogen caused infertility.

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 It was associated with aging.

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 But since they had product, they said, "Here we have the female hormone,

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 and being female means being able to have babies,

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 and so estrogen must be what causes women to have babies."

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 And they wanted to sell it for some popular use so they could sell it to millions of women,

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 and they came up with the idea that it would prevent miscarriage,

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 even though the science said the opposite.

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 And they got a team, man and wife at Harvard,

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 who promoted the idea of the diethylstilbestrol, D-E-S.

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 D-E-S, which is awful.

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 Yeah, that it would prevent miscarriages,

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 and so they were prescribing it for years to women to prevent miscarriage

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 and to make a healthier baby and so on.

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 And it turned out, well, probably they never would have had to stop selling it,

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 even though it was causing cancer and deformity.

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 About the same time it was getting recognized that D-E-S causes cancer

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 and doesn't prevent miscarriage but actually increases the risk,

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 they were getting interested in a new product to sell to even more women,

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 the birth control pill.

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 When they decided that the time was right in the 1940s,

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 they didn't want their drug company known as the abortion producer.

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 By 1959 or '60, abortion was becoming--

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 contraception was becoming acceptable, but still abortion was a taboo.

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 So they invented a story saying that if you take estrogen,

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 it will suppress your body's estrogen and prevent miscarriage by lowering your estrogen.

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 And so they came out with the contraceptive so-called abortion pill

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 just as it was recognized that D-E-S was causing miscarriages and cancer.

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 So they lost one product but immediately came out with another falsified story

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 to sell the birth control pill.

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 In terms of the dogma behind receptor physiology,

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 what is the truth behind whether or not estrogen binds to a specific receptor

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 and the lies surrounding the so-called science that was produced

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 in order to support the estrogen industry?

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 These people who were doing the real science were trying to explain

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 why estrogen had these toxic effects

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 and they found that natural estrogen was imitated by these polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons in soot,

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 which were famous and recognized as carcinogens,

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 and estrogen was known to be carcinogenic.

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 And so they were studying the properties of soot and estrogens

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 and finding that given estrogenic properties,

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 the substance was also tended to produce inflammation and cancer,

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 a very close association electronically in the nature of the molecule.

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 And these were activating enzyme systems in particular ways

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 according to the exact nature of that inflammatory carcinogenic,

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 estrogenic electronic configuration.

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 And this was reaching a peak in the 1950s

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 and the government moved some of their investments from chemical warfare

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 to endocrine research.

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 The opinion of many people is that the intention was to use it for population control.

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 The Nazis had been using estrogen on people in slave camps and such,

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 but the U.S. government got very interested in estrogen after the Second World War

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 and they gave a big grant to a group who--

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 it's an ongoing tradition of a group associated with the University of Chicago,

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 Michigan, and Lawrence Livermore Radiation Lab and UC Berkeley.

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 The project that was funded, or Elwood Jensen was the leader of it,

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 he had been working in chemical warfare

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 and wanted to create a new idea for how estrogen worked

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 that would not involve all of this interesting chemistry

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 which explained why estrogen was a very intense toxin, carcinogen.

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 He wanted to say that all it does is activate the female genes

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 that women are characterized by having a uterus and breast,

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 and the function of these is governed by their genes, their female genes,

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 and these genes are activated in their particular organs by estrogen

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 and somehow turning a switch that would only activate those female genes

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 and not involve all of this nasty chemistry of cancer and inflammation.

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 But they knew that soot caused cancer in the late 1800s from the chimney sweep.

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 But that was exactly what Jensen wanted people to forget

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 by saying just forget all of this enzymology and chemistry

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 that people have been working on,

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 and in such elegant ways showed the similarities of the carcinogens and estrogens.

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 But he wanted to say that it's like a lock and key.

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 The female organs have a very specific lock,

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 and the estrogen is a key that sticks only into that lock.

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 Estrogen receptors are now known to be found all throughout the body, right?

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 And in men.

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 And in men.

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 Yeah, there you go.

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 But no one was--at that time, the real science was thinking of the whole cell

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 and the whole organism as the responsive unit to things like estrogen.

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 But Elwood Jensen would--he was arguing that there was just one little switch molecule in the cell

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 which would neatly turn on only the female genes,

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 and so it wouldn't have the possibility of any of these other actions.

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 The Defense Department funded--well, Atomic Energy Commission gave him permission

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 to use a radioactive isotope and supplied the isotopes.

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 And other labs, his competition didn't have either the grants or the isotope.

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 They were very tightly controlled by the Atomic Energy Commission,

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 and he labeled estrogen and found that it concentrated in organs like the uterus.

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 And since the enzymologists were saying that it affects the whole energy system of the organism and the cell,

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 changing the oxidation reduction processes and participating in the chemistry of the cell,

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 he labeled two different kinds of estrogen, what labels in two different places,

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 and added them to the uterine tissue and said that there was no interchange between the two.

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 There were no oxidative reactions in which estrogen participated,

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 and he published that, I think it was 1962, and the enzymologists had been--

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 the whole thing was based on estrogen participating as a chemical reactant,

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 and he had the only means by which to demonstrate what he claimed,

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 so his opponents didn't have the grants or the isotopes to challenge that.

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 To disprove it, because the research up until that point had been showing that estrogen causes cancer,

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 but the drug companies after 1942 wanted to sell the oral contraceptive pill,

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 they wanted to sell DES, which is known to have caused cancer for generations later

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 in the babies of the mothers who took it, and now HRT.

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 So we're talking about three different majorly used drugs.

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 They knew caused cancer, and doctors are still prescribing them today.

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 And some of the particular enzymes involved in cancer and estrogen function

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 were well known to the enzymologists, but Elwood Jensen's group said,

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 "No, they don't use the fancy isotope demonstration to say, no, they don't participate.

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 They're not oxidized and reduced."

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 Ten or 15 years later, after the receptor dogma had been imposed on the world of biology,

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 other people started using isotopes and showing that, yes, the older enzymologists were exactly right.

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 Estrogen does participate as a catalyst in enzyme reactions,

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 especially transhydrogenation reactions that connect energy production to gene turnover and cell growth and so on.

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 So that's how it initiates cancer cells?

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 Yeah. It allows the energy to be short-circuited over into the growth rather than the function mechanism.

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 So the cell stops functioning and doing its normal cellular functioning,

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 and just the estrogen turns on the cell growth processes.

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 Yeah. It drains the energy right out of function into growth.

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 Very scary.

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:21.000
 Okay, one sec. You're listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMED Galbraithville 91.1 FM.

00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.000
 From 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o'clock, you're invited to call in with any questions,

00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:32.000
 either related or unrelated to this month's topic or mixed topics of estrogen, DHT, serotonin,

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:38.000
 and those hormones that are particularly bandied around by doctors and the mainstream as being helpful and beneficial,

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.000
 when in fact the science is there quite clearly to state the opposite.

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:48.000
 And we are very privileged to be joined by Dr. Raymond Peat, who has many years of research under his belt,

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.000
 to just tell us all about it.

00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.000
 So, Dr. Peat, again, I'm interested about the... because I know that I've mentioned this in the past,

00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.000
 and I think you brought it up on one of the previous shows, about water.

00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.000
 Water, H2O as we know it, is not just straightforward water.

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:10.000
 And I read some alchemical treaties about the way they would capture lightning water,

00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:17.000
 or water that was subjected to fallout during storms, and how this water was energetically more active.

00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.000
 And actually, modern science has shown that H2O exists in many different states,

00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.000
 and there is a very different mechanism by which water can act cellulally or intracellularly.

00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.000
 And I'm interested, from a point of view of what we're talking about now,

00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:40.000
 with estrogen involved in redox reactions, how that actually comes out in terms of its cancer-promoting.

00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:48.000
 Well, the fastest change that you can see in a cell within a minute or two of exposing it to estrogen

00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:51.000
 is that it just instantly starts taking up water.

00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:56.000
 And as it takes up water, the water gets out of the cell's control.

00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.000
 And that's part of this short-circuiting the energy process.

00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:08.000
 The microtubules that are an organizing force in the cell that lets it do the work it's supposed to,

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.000
 these are depolymerized in the presence of estrogen and disorganized.

00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:19.000
 And that's part of the cancer problem, that the cell can't communicate from one part to the other

00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:22.000
 because the microtubules are messed up.

00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:28.000
 And the division process even can reach the point where it can't separate the chromosomes evenly,

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:34.000
 and then you get imbalance of chromosomes, making the cancer degenerate.

00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:43.000
 The water is normally under control of adjoining surfaces, so that it's very unlike bulk water,

00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:47.000
 but in the presence of estrogen, it becomes bulk-like.

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:53.000
 So that one of my experiments at the university was to put an old uterus, a young uterus,

00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.000
 and an estrogen-treated uterus in an MRI machine.

00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:06.000
 And we could show that the old uterus and the estrogen-treated uterus had loose water, disorganized water,

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000
 could be distinguished from the young, healthy uterus.

00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:15.000
 Interesting. Okay. It's coming up close to 7.30, so I just want to let people know that from any time on,

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:19.000
 people are welcome to call in with questions related or unrelated to this month's show.

00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:25.000
 So far as other hormones are concerned, the whole hormone replacement therapy,

00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:35.000
 just give me your opinion of the HRT's effects and why it was eventually taken out.

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:36.000
 Well, when the--

00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.000
 Well, it's still not taken out. People still--

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.000
 In England, there's a lot of--

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:41.000
 It's not as popular.

00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.000
 Yeah, in England, there's a big backlash against it.

00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:50.000
 The industry succeeded so greatly in turning science completely upside down in the case of estrogen.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.000
 That took a lot of other hormones with it.

00:21:53.000 --> 00:22:00.000
 Progesterone was suppressed and ignored because it would cure the things that estrogen was claimed to cure,

00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.000
 and actually caused.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.000
 And it couldn't be patented, as you said.

00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:10.000
 Yeah. And prolactin had many toxic effects that were well-recognized.

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:16.000
 But since estrogen increases prolactin, there was a great pressure not to think very much about what it means

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:21.000
 that prolactin causes bone loss and contributes to osteoporosis.

00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:26.000
 It wasn't popular to think of the fact that estrogen increases prolactin.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:34.000
 And serotonin is another thing that has been strongly influenced by this inverted interpretation of estrogen

00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.000
 because estrogen increases exposure to serotonin.

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:43.000
 Serotonin is one of the means by which estrogen increases prolactin.

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:49.000
 And serotonin does many of the harmful things that estrogen and prolactin do,

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.000
 including a direct cause of bone loss.

00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:01.000
 People who take the fluoxetine type of antidepressants are seen to have a lot of premature bone loss

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:06.000
 because of the excess exposure to serotonin and the associated prolactin.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:12.000
 And serotonin is, in a way, kind of a cofactor for estrogen.

00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:21.000
 Estrogen increases serotonin systemically, and serotonin, in turn, increases the production of estrogen.

00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.000
 So when one gets out of control, they both tend to become dominant.

00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:30.000
 And serotonin is involved in the inflammations produced by estrogen.

00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.000
 Well, we're all told that serotonin is the feel-good hormone and--

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.000
 They give you SSRIs, I mean--

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:41.000
 Yeah, they give you antidepressant-selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors so you can feel better.

00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.000
 So it's more present in the circulation.

00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:48.000
 And so it's just the same brainwashing they're trying to do to us like they did with the estrogen,

00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000
 saying estrogen prevents bone loss when actually it causes bone loss.

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.000
 So serotonin helps your depression and, in fact, has all these negative side effects of increased bone loss,

00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:02.000
 increased estrogen levels, increased risk of cancer.

00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:11.000
 Yeah, one of the currently bad effects of serotonin excess that is getting some recognition,

00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:20.000
 even though in the 1950s all of the bad features of serotonin were recognized in a disease involving tumors in the intestine

00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.000
 that produced too much serotonin.

00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:32.000
 But in just the last two or three years, the hypertension of the pulmonary artery is being seen to be caused by serotonin.

00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.000
 And the drugs that increase serotonin increase this pulmonary hypertension

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:41.000
 and degeneration of the valves in the right side of the heart.

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:49.000
 This was known in the 1950s as the main deadly complication of having that serotonin-producing tumor.

00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:59.000
 But finally, 60 years later, it's being recognized as a way to treat pulmonary hypertension by using antiserotonin drugs.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.000
 Okay, we do actually have a caller on the line, Dr. Peat.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:05.000
 Yes, I sometimes have a tendency toward depression,

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:12.000
 and I like to do more natural things when I can and stay away from the hard drugs when I can.

00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.000
 So I resisted trying to go after Prozac or any of that.

00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:21.000
 But I was told by some nature doctors to try 5-HTP.

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.000
 As a matter of fact, I was told by another couple of people that I inquired that had depression,

00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:30.000
 and they said that this 5-HTP was something natural that would help you use your own serotonin better

00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.000
 and be more like kind of a natural Prozac.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:38.000
 Now, are you telling me that that is not good for you, that that's going to make you either make more--

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:42.000
 does it help you make more serotonin or utilize what you have better?

00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:50.000
 The Prozac-type drugs keep the platelets and nerve cells from binding and keeping serotonin out of the way,

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.000
 and so they lead to overexposure to the serotonin.

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:56.000
 Are you familiar with 5-HTP?

00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.000
 That's what you get at the health food store.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.000
 That's supposed to be like an amino acid or--

00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:09.000
 Yes, plain tryptophan is bad enough, but the 5-hydroxy tryptophan is one step closer to being serotonin.

00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000
 So you think that it's not good for me to take it?

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:20.000
 Everything that I know suggests that, for example, there's increased risk of breast cancer and obesity and many bad effects.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:22.000
 How can it increase obesity?

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.000
 By slowing metabolism and suppressing thyroid motion.

00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:27.000
 5-HTP does that?

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.000
 The antidepressants?

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:35.000
 Well, no, I don't mean like Prozac. I'm just talking about 5-HTP, the amino acid, the tryptophan.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:41.000
 It hasn't been studied as much as the antidepressants, but it works to raise your serotonin.

00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.000
 It's basically providing you the precursor in your body makes more serotonin out of it.

00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:52.000
 So the effects of serotonin in excess are going to be increasing estrogen, which slows your liver's metabolism.

00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:55.000
 That can slow your thyroid down. That can lead to obesity.

00:26:55.000 --> 00:26:58.000
 By increasing estrogen, it can promote cancer.

00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:01.000
 I guess it says it elevates your mood.

00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:07.000
 Well, you have to weigh it up. It might elevate your mood, but you also risk these other things.

00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:11.000
 I mean, they used to give x-rays to help with psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis.

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.000
 Oh, whoops-a-daisy. Sorry you got cancer.

00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:19.000
 My aunt had a lot of x-ray treatment for her acne on her back, and she had a terrible form of breast cancer,

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.000
 which turned into bone cancer, and she died at the age of 50.

00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:28.000
 Well, I certainly don't want to slow my metabolism or my thyroid down or any of that.

00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:36.000
 I've done with the menopause thing, so I figure my estrogen has balanced itself out, and I've never taken the replacement.

00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:42.000
 It seems like he's not talking about how it became so outrageously popular for women with menopause.

00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:47.000
 The little pink pills, the HRT, the hormone replacement therapy that everybody was taking

00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:55.000
 because they didn't like having hot flashes and other things that would move the swings and menopause symptoms.

00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:01.000
 My approach was that it was a natural occurrence, and so it didn't really need to be medically changed.

00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:06.000
 I just didn't feel I had a symptom that was bad enough that I needed medical intervention.

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.000
 Maybe I was just lucky and I had mild symptoms, although I did have a lot of hot flashes.

00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:18.000
 But it was only in the last maybe four or five years that it's been suggested that I take this 5-HTP as if it was like Congress.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:27.000
 I don't need to increase my serotonin if it's going to slow down my thyroid and up my estrogen and be bad for my heart valve.

00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.000
 That's right.

00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:33.000
 So that's all the things that she said it did, right?

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:40.000
 Yeah, and it's not, again, because Dr. Peat has spent his life researching things and doing research on even the articles,

00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:44.000
 "Is this faulty science? Is this promoted by a drug company who did this research?"

00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.000
 When he says that, it's not him saying that as though it's his own opinion.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:53.000
 He's adopted that opinion from researching the evidence of what causes it.

00:28:53.000 --> 00:29:01.000
 I just want to say again that I'm not talking about the Prozac or the Zoloft or the PaxMillips, the pharmaceutical serotonin drugs.

00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:09.000
 I'm specifically talking about 5-HTP, which you get at the health food store, where it seems like it's this benign thing that can't hurt you.

00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:10.000
 No, it's not benign.

00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:17.000
 It's all part of the same system. Yes, Prozac might increase your serotonin to a much higher degree than taking 5-HTP,

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.000
 but it's all working on that same system.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.000
 If a little bit is that the body naturally produces in the bowel because your bowel will naturally produce the serotonin,

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:34.000
 if a little bit is stimulating inflammation and degeneration, then you wouldn't want to increase that even through natural means.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:40.000
 Yes, so I should probably do without it and see if my food is okay anyway and just have a stiff upper lip, right?

00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.000
 Yes, it sounds like a good idea.

00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:43.000
 All right, thank you.

00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:44.000
 Thank you.

00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:57.000
 I think unfortunately what comes out time and time again is that the short term is certainly not worth the price of the long term sequelae of disease processes.

00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:04.000
 And I think most people, I think us all included, we only really see the short term unless we delve into the facts.

00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.000
 It's just like with fish oils in people's inflammation.

00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:14.000
 It can relieve inflammation to some degree, but you also run the risk of suppressing your immune system and damaging your liver in the meantime.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:16.000
 So it's a risk to ratio.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.000
 I think what gets brought out more and more is that the long term risks are certainly very evident, very prevalent,

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:27.000
 and that people, what we're doing here with this show and other previous shows is just highlighting the long term risks.

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:36.000
 And so unfortunately, most people don't understand the long term risks and only the short term gain is, I think, what fuels most people's desires to be on certain drugs.

00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:39.000
 But there is a lot of long term risk associated with it.

00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:45.000
 And I think Dr. Peat's doing an excellent job of bringing these facts out because it's already there in terms of science articles.

00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:47.000
 Okay, there's two more callers on the line.

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.000
 Hello.

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.000
 Hi, you're on the air.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:50.000
 Hi, Dr. Peat.

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.000
 This is wonderful.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:58.000
 I've talked to you before and I've gotten completely off of my serotonin reuptake inhibitors.

00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:03.000
 And I wanted to say that I read a bunch of articles on your site.

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:17.000
 And I have to tell you that one effect of stopping taking these Prozac and these serotonin things is that I've now been able to stop taking, using steroids in an inhaler.

00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.000
 My asthma has gone away completely.

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:20.000
 All right, well done.

00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:29.000
 And I just wanted to make sure that I read your website right because I think you said there that it does relate, serotonin does relate to asthma.

00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:33.000
 And nobody ever told me that, but I'm completely off my inhaler.

00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:35.000
 And it's only been a month.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.000
 So I just wanted to tell you that and ask a question about that.

00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:43.000
 Yeah, it does several things related to asthma.

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.000
 Estrogen is related to asthma too.

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:58.000
 And the effect of the serotonin is to cause localized contraction of the tubes in your lungs as well as causing them to take up water and promote some inflammation.

00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:02.000
 But the contraction is the thing that's best studied in connection with asthma.

00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.000
 Well, thank you so much.

00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:09.000
 That's really interesting because it went away within like four weeks.

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.000
 I was off of the -- I wasn't having the breathing problems.

00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.000
 I just -- the first few -- the first week or so, I coughed up a lot of liquid.

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:19.000
 But then after that, it just quit.

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:23.000
 So anyway, thank you very much, and I'm going to keep reading your website for articles.

00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:24.000
 Thank you.

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.000
 Great.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.000
 You coughed out the asthma.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:30.000
 I don't know what I coughed out, but I just -- I coughed up a lot of fluid for like a week.

00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:36.000
 But after that, it just cleared up, and I stopped using the inhaler, and I'm not using it anymore.

00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.000
 And I'm just really grateful.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:38.000
 Yeah, fantastic news.

00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:46.000
 Getting off the serotonin was painful, but after I'm -- you know, I'm off of it now for almost two months.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.000
 So I have to be -- I'm very grateful.

00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.000
 So thank you for the information.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:51.000
 Thank you for your call.

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.000
 Good.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000
 Well, there we go.

00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.000
 That's another glaring example of what we hear frequently.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.000
 So, yeah, if you want to listen to Dr. Peat, truth is out there if you open your ears.

00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.000
 Okay, there's another caller.

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.000
 Hey, hello.

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:10.000
 I came in a little bit late to the discussion, but I haven't really heard mention of the three different types of estrogen in our bodies.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:15.000
 They have a hugely disparate impact on our bodies, and I think that that's really germane to this conversation.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.000
 So please inform us of that.

00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.000
 Sure.

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:28.000
 There are probably a dozen important types of estrogen, but almost all of them, the three main types, estriol, estrone, and estradiol,

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.000
 those are the best known and have been used as drugs.

00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:42.000
 Those all have pretty much the same effects but just at different potencies so that if you can turn your most potent estradiol into the others,

00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:47.000
 you're protected against some of the most toxic effects of estrogen.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:54.000
 During pregnancy, enzymes are detoxifying estrogen by many different routes.

00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:03.000
 The index of a healthy pregnancy is when the estriol is high because that means you're destroying your estradiol very quickly.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:11.000
 So the estradiol is the most dangerous form, and that's usually what I recommend women have tested to make sure their most dangerous form is not too high.

00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:18.000
 And these different forms are exactly the issue that Elwood Jensen denied happened.

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:30.000
 He said estradiol can't turn into estrone and estriol, but in fact, that's a major way of either activating or inactivating estrogen according to the cells energy system.

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:36.000
 So the only reason you'd want high estriol is because that would tell us that the estradiol is being detoxified,

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.000
 not that high estriol in itself is protective in any way, shape, or form.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.000
 Yeah, it's about 10 times weaker than estrogen.

00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:51.000
 So every little bit of estradiol that you turn to estriol, it's a down stepping of your estrogen effect.

00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.000
 So I'm not sure that's the answer that lady was looking for.

00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.000
 Okay, well there's two more callers on the line.

00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.000
 So, you're on the air.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.000
 Hi, thank you so much for having me on the show.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.000
 It's really interesting.

00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:09.000
 I had a question about modern birth control methods and your opinion of them in terms of how safe they are,

00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:15.000
 things such as pill or the Nubar ring, and just in terms of I know that those still have levels of estrogen,

00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:21.000
 and do you recommend those as safe contraceptives, or do you think that those are still dangerous to your health?

00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.000
 And I can take my question off the air.

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.000
 Thank you.

00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:32.000
 They tremendously decrease the amount of estrogen in the contraceptives, but if it's strong enough to kill the embryo,

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.000
 it's strong enough to do some damage to the woman.

00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:45.000
 And about 30 years ago, there was quite a bit of agitation among women's groups for FDA approval of the traditional

00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:55.000
 cervical cap, which the ideal thing was made by a metal worker or a dentist with a metal casting outfit.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:01.000
 They would use a dental mold making material to get an exact impression of the cervix,

00:36:01.000 --> 00:36:07.000
 and then they would cast silver or gold or some inactive metal in the shape of the cervix,

00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:14.000
 and it would form a vacuum seal, and it could be used -- could be left in place weeks at a time.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:23.000
 And under the pressure from the women's groups, the FDA gave its approval to a rubber so-called cervical cap,

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:31.000
 which was actually shaped more like a baby bottle's nipple with a huge projection chamber on the end,

00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:34.000
 which was supposed to be filled with spermicidal goo,

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:42.000
 and that immense structural projection caused it to almost instantly be displaced,

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.000
 and so they were terribly unsuccessful.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:50.000
 It was just like a way of inserting a spermicidal cream or jelly.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:56.000
 But the FDA approved that but wouldn't approve the one that actually worked because --

00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:01.000
 I think it was because they were simply working for the contraceptive pill industry.

00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:09.000
 And then as far as the IUD, they now have IUDs that have hormones that secrete a small amount of hormone inside the uterine cavity,

00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.000
 so that would be the similar situation.

00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:22.000
 Yes, the signal from inside the uterus travels through nerves and other conduction up the fallopian tube to prevent the ovary

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:26.000
 from producing the amount of progesterone that it should.

00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:32.000
 So any kind of IUD, with or without hormones, will create a hormonal imbalance,

00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:36.000
 which is what is the main thing accounting for the prevention of pregnancy.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.000
 And then thereby increasing your estrogen and increasing risk of cancer.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.000
 Yes.

00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:47.000
 So the one possible safe method of contraception would be the silver or the gold.

00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:48.000
 But they don't make those.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.000
 They don't make them.

00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:53.000
 Is there anything else other than natural birth control?

00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:54.000
 Rhythm or method?

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.000
 Yes.

00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:56.000
 Fertility awareness method?

00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:57.000
 Not too much else.

00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:02.000
 Yes, I think the rhythm cycle method is the best.

00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:03.000
 Yes, good.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:04.000
 Okay, another caller.

00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:05.000
 I think there's two more.

00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.000
 Hello, you're on the air.

00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.000
 Caller, are you there?

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:09.000
 I think you have something playing in the background.

00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:11.000
 Well, I guess we don't have another caller here.

00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:12.000
 So the lines are open.

00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:16.000
 So give us a call at 923-3911 and we'll continue on with Dr. Peat.

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:18.000
 Okay, that last call I guess is not there.

00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:22.000
 So Dr. Peat, going on to the other hormones that are...

00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.000
 We want to talk about melatonin.

00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:24.000
 We want to ask you...

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000
 Melatonin.

00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:26.000
 What do you think of melatonin?

00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:29.000
 Well, it has its own endocrine problems.

00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:34.000
 It can disturb your progesterone and thyroid production if you take a lot of it.

00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:39.000
 Its function seems to be as a way of detoxifying serotonin,

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:46.000
 the trigger that turns the conversion in the pineal gland of serotonin into melatonin.

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.000
 It's the adrenergic stress-related nerve.

00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:53.000
 During the night, your stress increases from the lack of light,

00:38:53.000 --> 00:39:00.000
 and the adrenergic system causes the pineal to convert serotonin to melatonin.

00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:07.000
 In general, in various places, melatonin is functioning as an antidote to serotonin.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:14.000
 So biologically, it's evidence that you're responding to stress with a detoxifying process.

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.000
 And the similar enzymes exist in the pineal that are activated by the stress

00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:24.000
 can also be found in inflamed joint tissue and in breast cancer, for example.

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:30.000
 And serotonin is involved in the pathology of both of those situations.

00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.000
 And so if our enzymes could turn it more quickly into melatonin,

00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.000
 then there would be less of a serotonin problem.

00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.000
 But when people actually take melatonin--

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:44.000
 Sometimes it's probably protecting against the circulating serotonin,

00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:49.000
 but in itself, in an otherwise healthy person, for example, in the animal studies,

00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:56.000
 was capable of lowering both progesterone and thyroid while increasing estrogen.

00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:01.000
 So in a short-term emergency situation, it could be okay,

00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:05.000
 but again, long-term, it's going to have negative side effects.

00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:10.000
 Yeah, that depends probably on the person, but it's much safer than serotonin.

00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.000
 Okay. All right, well, we do have two more callers,

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.000
 so we'll try to get through them if we can and see how we go.

00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.000
 - You're on the air? - Yes.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.000
 - Hi, you're on the air. - Hi.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.000
 Yeah, I take a-- it's called Vagifem suppository,

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:27.000
 and it's for dryness, but I just looked on the package,

00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.000
 and it says it's estradiol.

00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.000
 So should I really worry about that?

00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.000
 Because I did have a problem with pretty dry--

00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.000
 Okay. Dr. Peat, what would you--

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:43.000
 People have been studying who were using vaginal creams, for example,

00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:49.000
 and their blood level of estrogen was even higher than some of the oral pills were causing.

00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:53.000
 So it's definitely a systemic hormonal influence, wherever you put it.

00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.000
 So obviously, if there's any familial-- even if there isn't a familial history,

00:40:57.000 --> 00:41:02.000
 but especially if there is a familial history of any estrogen cancers.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.000
 So, Dr. Peat, what would you recommend to this lady to use in place of her suppository?

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:12.000
 I've known several women who had pharmacists make them up suppositories

00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:18.000
 with a fairly high dose of vitamin A and a little vitamin E in cocoa butter

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:20.000
 or other way of introducing it.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:26.000
 And the vitamin A helps to strengthen the membranes and normalize mucus production.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.000
 - Okay. - Okay, good.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:29.000
 Well, that's a pretty--

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.000
 And in the meantime, if you can't find a pharmacist to make it--

00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:33.000
 Yeah, you can do that yourself.

00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:37.000
 --vitamin A, palmitate, and vitamin E, you can buy those capsules and try that.

00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:39.000
 Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much.

00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:40.000
 Yeah, you're welcome.

00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.000
 It certainly sounds a lot safer than--

00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:43.000
 - Yeah. - Yeah, what you were using.

00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.000
 Okay, good. There's another caller on the line.

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:46.000
 - Hello? - Hi, you're near.

00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:51.000
 Hi. What do you think of the bioidentical hormones in low dose?

00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:54.000
 - Very suspicious, Dr. Peat. - That come from wild yams and--

00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.000
 Well, it depends which ones. Are they estrogen or are they progesterone?

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:03.000
 Well, there are the three estrogens, but the estradiol is the lowest.

00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.000
 You know, they're compounded by Women's International Pharmacy,

00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:11.000
 but they're from soy and yam, wild yam.

00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:12.000
 And there's no progesterone in there?

00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:18.000
 And progesterone also from vegetable sources,

00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:26.000
 as opposed to the synthetic or the animal estrogens that pharmaceutical companies use.

00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.000
 So, Dr. Peat, what would you recommend to this lady?

00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.000
 Well, whether it's his opinion of the bioidentical hormones.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:37.000
 Well, all of the hormones that are bioidentical can have--

00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.000
 they have to fit into the system in a balanced way.

00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:48.000
 And it's okay to have a physiological amount of any of these serotonin, estrogen, melatonin, and so on.

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:51.000
 But when you supplement estrogen or serotonin,

00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:56.000
 you're most likely increasing something that's already excessive.

00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:08.000
 The doctrine of replacement with the natural hormones is building on the history of the estrogen replacement with synthetic hormones.

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:16.000
 And what they neglect is that as a woman ages from age 19 to 39, for example,

00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:21.000
 there's a steady average increase in the amount of estrogen in her bloodstream,

00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:26.000
 as well as a fairly continuous amount of progesterone, which every cycle,

00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:34.000
 the estrogen is forced out of the cells all through the body by the rising large amount of progesterone.

00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:43.000
 And in the 40s, progesterone production is no longer able to fully keep up with this steadily increasing estrogen production with aging.

00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:50.000
 And as soon as estrogen-- as soon as progesterone decreases and can no longer force estrogen out of the cells,

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:56.000
 the blood estrogen level will drop, but the estrogen inside the cells will increase.

00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:02.000
 Publications by some-- I think they're Norwegians, Batra and others,

00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:06.000
 and by Richard Blandau in University of Washington,

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:13.000
 showed that the tissues of old organisms retain estrogen than the tissues of young animals.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:22.000
 And the fact that you don't find it in the blood is simply because estrogen sticks inside the cells in proportion to the deficiency of progesterone.

00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:26.000
 So that was probably the reason why they recommended it is because of low blood levels,

00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:29.000
 and so Dr. Peat's advice would be to not use it.

00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:35.000
 Okay. I'm being made aware that it is two minutes to eight o'clock, and the show does wrap up at eight o'clock.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:38.000
 So thank you for all of those people that have called in.

00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:44.000
 For anyone else who's listening who wants to find out more about Dr. Raymond Peat, who's our special guest this month,

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:50.000
 his website is very informative. It's www.raypeat.com.

00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.000
 R-A-Y-P-E-A-T.com.

00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.000
 Thank you so much, Dr. Peat, for joining us this evening.

00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:56.000
 Okay. Thank you.

00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.000
 Okay.

00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.000
 Thank you.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:03.000
 And for those listening, we can be reached during normal business hours, Monday through Friday.

00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:08.000
 We have a number, 1-888-WBM-ERB, which is 1-888-

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.000
 926-4372.

00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:16.000
 Okay. So until the same time next month, seven to eight o'clock, thank you so much for listening.

00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.000
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00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:20.000
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00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:23.000
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