htaccess for new users

[kraymitchell]

Less an issue, more a suggestion.

While long time web devs know all about .htaccess and that it is invisible, a large majority of new users will have no idea the file is even there. While we take this for granted, I think it would be a good idea to include .htaccess as htaccess.txt for new users which I'm sure will save many people frustrations.

No, it's not a requirement, but it would be a good user experience for new users.

[alrra]

@kraymitchell thanks for opening this issue.

I think it would be a good idea to include .htaccess as htaccess.txt for new users which I'm sure will save many people frustrations.

I personally don't think that would be a good idea as users expect H5BP to work by default without any change. Renaming the file will just:

• frustrate the majority of users who will have to rename the file back to .htaccess
• confuse some of the users who will expect .htaccess, and won't understand what's with htaccess.txt or why doesn't it work

a large majority of new users will have no idea the file is even there

That is true for users using unix-like operating systems. But I think from those people a good portion will have a basic idea what a hidden file is. From the rest, some of them will hopefully read the docs or read about how to configure Apache, and figure the existence of the file that way. As for the remaining few, I don't think we can anything.

[mathiasbynens]

I agree with @alrra. Renaming it to anything other than .htaccess would be confusing and annoying IMHO.

[kraymitchell]

@alrra
I have been teaching basic HTML and CSS for the past 4 years, and a good portion of people have a difficult enough time with basic file structure of files they can see, never mind files that are hidden.

Like I said, it's not a requirement, just a better UX for new users. Changing a filename is not a difficult task at all. If you think this is frustrating, try being a new user who uploads an .htaccess to their server without knowing it's there and trying to figure out what the problem is when something goes wrong.

Remember, not everybody is as advanced as us, and H5BP is meant to be super easy for people starting out, no?

[gazza666]

Terrible idea, at a max a htaccess.txt file explaining existance of the .htaccess file, but if ya not competant enought to know of the existance of the htaccess file, u need to be learning basics first not jumping into the boilerplate, being able to use it with little knowledge is good but files shouldnt be structured purposely for this reason

[alrra]

try being a new user who uploads an .htaccess to their server without knowing it's there

@kraymitchell The .htaccess file is a black box even for more advanced users, and that's why we try as much as possible to make it such that the user doesn't have to touch it at all , or even know about it.

IMHO, at that stage of learning, copying the directory containing the H5BP files on the server, should be enough.

Like I said, it's not a requirement,

@kraymitchell yes I understood that, I just wanted to tell you why it's difficult for us to make such a change.

H5BP is meant to be super easy for people starting out, no?

@kraymitchell H5BP is intended for all kinds of people with very different levels of expertise and needs, but we try to satisfy all of them as much as possible.

@kraymitchell thanks again for this issue, but we'll be sticking with .htaccess.

[kraymitchell]

@gazza666 So rather than structuring files to educate people who don't know, just let people continue doing things wrong, incorrectly or uninformed? Sure, that works out great for all of us.

My statement and suggestion remains. We should be helping new users understand new things by providing the easiest way possible for them to do so, not 'If you don't know, tough, go learn.' approach.

If people shouldn't be jumping into the boilerplate, then people shouldn't make it sound like something you can jump right into it.

[kraymitchell]

@alrra That's fine, like I said, just a suggestion based on years of teaching newbies.

[roblarsen]

@kraymitchell there are two forces at work here. The one you bring up is important and I tend to agree with you that people people running into problems because of .htaccess is a problem that needs to be addressed.

The other force is that things that ship with H5BP need to just work. Changing the name to htaccess.txt or whatever means that it no longer works and it's just cruft. Educational cruft,but cruft nonetheless.

Of course, the .htaccess doesn't "just work" in many shared hosting environments either (my legacy hosting service, for example, blows up if I upload the .htaccess as is.)

Instead of renaming it, if the goal is to protect newbies, I would suggest removing it from the project entirely, to be honest. There's no way to make it "just work" all the time and make it accessible for newbies. There are too many variables with Apache modules and permissions.

[kraymitchell]

@roblarsen Also a great idea, didn't even think of that option.

[roblarsen]

I don't know that it's a great idea, but it's the idea that balances protecting newbies from errors (which is a real concern) versus shipping something that doesn't work for anyone out of the box (which isn't something this project would do.)

[retlehs]

@roblarsen not a bad idea to remove it from the boilerplate! you're right about it not working out-of-the-box in many shared hosting environments. that would also mean that changes from https://github.com/h5bp/server-configs-apache wouldn't need to be rolled into this repo separately 👍

from what i've personally seen, nowadays it's more common to use nginx instead of apache anyway.

[roblarsen]

@retlehs FWIW, Apache is still the most popular web server on the planet with IIS nipping at its heels: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2014/03/03/march-2014-web-server-survey.html

[alrra]

you're right about it not working out-of-the-box in many shared hosting environments

For the supported Apache versions, the .htaccess file should work out-of-the-box without any problems. Of course some of the configs won't do anything if the appropriate modules aren't enable, but if it causes any problems, issues should be filed in the https://github.com/h5bp/server-configs-apache repository.

As for removing the .htaccess file from H5BP, that can be a different discussion and shouldn't be addressed here. :)

[roblarsen]

@alrra I'll follow up with some details over there if I can still replicate, but I've definitely uploaded demo code based on H5BP to my legacy host and had it 500 error immediately.