Climate: on/off state should be independent from the HVAC mode

[Noltari]

Some modern climate systems have a master thermostat in which the HVAC mode can be changed and slave thermostats where the HVAC mode can't be changed (it will be forced to the one from its corresponding master thermostat):

• https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/airzone
• https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/airzone_cloud
• https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/advantage_air

Master Zones allow:

• Changing the HVAC mode.
• Turning on/off.
• Changing the desired temperature.

Slave Zones allow:

• Turning on/off.
• Changing the desired temperature.

On Home Assistant climate entities we don't really support turning on a climate entity, because we consider any HVAC mode != Off as being On.
We should make the on/off status independent from the HVAC mode.
Most of the air conditioners have this behaviour: you can switch them on and off without changing its HVAC mode.

Related discussions:

• Broaden the scope of HVAC_MODE_AUTO or add HVAC_MODE_ON #625
• Add feature flags `ClimateEntityFeature.TURN_OFF` + `ClimateEntityFeature.TURN_ON` #982

[Noltari]

Moreover, some Air Conditioners such as Airzone have a "Stop Mode" (this is an additional HVAC mode), in which the compressor won't be supplied with electricity and the device will be set to the minimum power consumption.

[OnFreund]

I don't know Airzone, but many A/Cs have independent controls for on/off and mode, and allow you to control the mode while off (thus determining what the next "On" state would be). There has been lots of feedback about this when Climate 1.0 was implemented, but unfortunately it wasn't taken into account, and the resulting design was basically optimizing for heat pumps, at the expense of A/Cs.

[BradleyFord]

Agree

The Daikin ACs have separate on/off and modes.

To work around this I need to use a HACS add-in that creates custom climate templates, and also addition code on how to blend together these into one type for HA.

Note: These are heat pump A/Cs

Daikin are one of the most significant players in the industry and often a standard setter

[OnFreund]

In this case you don't even need a standard setter - A/Cs have had separate knobs for mode and on/off for decades :)

[Noltari]

Sorry @gjohansson-ST, but I totally forgot to answer...

Not sure I understand this. If you implement the methods for turn_on and turn_off are you not then in control what they would do when called?

Yes, but there's no ON/OFF button/switch at UI level for climate entities (thermostat cards) and I don't think that it will be possible to add it until proper independent on/off state support is added to climate entities, since you can only call turn_on and turn_off, but you don't have a binary status to show on the UI.

In my opinion, OFF should be removed from HVACMode and another binary attribute with on/off status should be added to ClimateEntity.
Therefore, climate devices which only support a single HVACMode should only be toggable on/off and the HVAC Mode shouldn't be modifiable, being always HEAT (or whatever that climate device supports).

[Noltari]

Sorry @gjohansson-ST, but I totally forgot to answer...

Not sure I understand this. If you implement the methods for turn_on and turn_off are you not then in control what they would do when called?

Yes, but there's no ON/OFF button/switch at UI level for climate entities (thermostat cards) and I don't think that it will be possible to add it until proper independent on/off state support is added to climate entities, since you can only call turn_on and turn_off, but you don't have a binary status to show on the UI.

In my opinion, OFF should be removed from HVACMode and another binary attribute with on/off status should be added to ClimateEntity. Therefore, climate devices which only support a single HVACMode should only be toggable on/off and the HVAC Mode shouldn't be modifiable, being always HEAT (or whatever that climate device supports).

@joostlek @gjohansson-ST in the end what I pretend to achieve is having a Toggle in the interface, like in the Light Entities:

And we could add some flags to the climate entity that would enable independently in the UI:

• Switch on/off.
• Changing HVAC mode.
  Therefore, some climate entities would be able to do one of those two, or even both (most Daikin devices and Airzone master zones, for example).

[psychoboust]

Hi everyone, any news about this ?
I am new to Home Assistant, and was looking for a way to get the STOP MODE and also the ON/OFF button independant from the HVAC mode

[jbouwh]

I agree the climate entity should have an independent on/off state. I suggest we implement the is_on property.

property	type	default	description
is_on	boolean	None	If the climate is currently on or off.

The climate entity already has turn_on and turn_off actions but it does not use _attr_is_on. The proposal is to add a is_on property to the climate entity platform. If the _attr_is_on attribute is set to False the state should always return HVACMode.OFF.value regardless of the current mode and action. It is up the the integration to decide if an independent on/off state is needed. IMO a climate can be off while the mode is idle or auto. The integration should be able to maintain the current state correctly.

PR to implement this: home-assistant/core#134311

[jbouwh]

I updated the proposal a bit. The new is_on attribute would be a new climate property. When _attr_is_on is set, is_on will follow the state of _attr_is_on, else will be False if the current action is OFF if that is available or of the mode is OFF.
The state will be OFF is _attr_is_on is False even if the mode is e.g. AUTO. It is up to the integration to set the best suitable mode and current action (if that is supported).

[frenck]

Why not just add a switch entity for that device?

[Noltari]

Why not just add a switch entity for that device?

Yes, that was exactly what I was proposing.

[gjohansson-ST]

Why not just add a switch entity for that device?

Yes, that was exactly what I was proposing.

I think you started this proposal @Noltari in the attempt to change the ClimateEntity somewhat, but now it would be fine to use a SwithcEntity instead?

[OnFreund]

Why not just add a switch entity for that device?

For the same reason we don't use a number entity for the temperature - the on/off state is an integral part of the state, and having it as a separate entity complicates the interface. I believe that HVAC systems that aren't toggle-able are the exception, not the rule, yet the current design optimizes for them.
Similar entities, such as humidifiers, and even fans (where ironically many physical devices are designed like the climate entity, meaning having no "on" switch, but rather "off" and a few presets), are all toggleable. I think Climate should follow suit.