Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Sunday 1st May 2022 @ 18:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
18:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   a. Seth's Hardfork Checklist
   b. Malicious nodes / Reddit thread warning / gui quick-fix
   c. Monero GUI 0.17.3.2 'Oxygen Orion' released

News: Monero Observer - Monero Moon - Revuo Monero

5. CCS updates
   a. Seraphis Wallet PoC 2 funding proposal
   b. Multi-scene monero solutions
   c. Patronero - Open Source project for donating by mining
   d. Translation of Monero GUI Wallet, CLI Wallet, monero-site, Behavioral Finance, Cryptocurrency Markets (subtitles), Moneropedia, User Guides to Greek
   e. Monero Afghanistan Expansion Strategy (Issue to resolve: Proposer contacting voter via PM)
   f. Work in progress updates

6. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   -Prev meeting v15 Network Upgrade
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup
   -Prev meeting: MoneroKon 2022 Planning
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   -Midipoet to attend Oslo Freedom Forum
   g. Research workgroup
   -Prev meeting

7. Open ideas time
   a. Adding --rpc-access-control-origins=* to a public node config to help the monero-javascript ecosystem. fix here
   b. "Podcasting 2.0" (pc20) with Monero as an alternative to Bitcoin lightning? - agates (Aleks Gates) overview here (similar existing examples in Monero : ShadowChat / TipXMR - summary by CryptoGrampy , clarifications by Agates
   c. Are devs getting burnt out? What can we do?
   -Personal responsibility ( where devs account for breaks in their proposals - backlash? )
   -Community intervention - a separate fund raiser? for specific devs or generic?
   -Someone they can contact to discuss their well being?

8. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

18:00:29 <plowsof[m]> Meeting time!
18:00:29 <plowsof[m]> Introduction / Greetings
18:00:29 <plowsof[m]> Hello everyone, it's been a while. During this hour we'll discuss recent events, CCS ideas and those that are in progress. Touch on what some of the other workgroups have been doing and end on some open ideas.
18:01:04 <plowsof[m]> Hello monerobull 
18:01:12 <monerobull[m]> is this the meeting supposed to clean up the ccs proposals?
18:01:13 <monerobull[m]> plowsof[m]: hi
18:01:34 <cryptogrampy[m]> hi
18:01:40 <plowsof[m]> not clean but at least share our ideas / thoughts on them :)
18:02:11 <merope> Ahoy!
18:02:46 <plowsof[m]> Right, lets jump in
18:02:49 <Rucknium[m]> Hi
18:02:50 <plowsof[m]> Community highlights
18:03:05 <plowsof[m]> a. Seth's Hardfork Checklist
18:03:11 <plowsof[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/690
18:03:33 <plowsof[m]> @sethforprivacy has created a hardfork checklist so we can keep track of tasks yet to be completed. It's coming along nicely!
18:03:45 <monerobull[m]> i wrote kraken support and they said their developers will keep things uptodate
18:04:30 <plowsof[m]> We've had some malicious nodes causing trouble again with high tx fees https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/udpv7q/warning_1973_xmr_transaction_fee_malicious_remote/
18:04:51 <plowsof[m]> A warning in the Monero GUI wallet has been added to warn of high TX fees. A list of trusted / 'health checked' nodes has been suggested as long term fix for simple node users. 
18:05:02 <plowsof[m]> info here : https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/pull/3897
18:05:43 <cryptogrampy[m]> And obviously the best fix is to use your own nodes :) 
18:05:53 <monerobull[m]> very nice. ill take 1% credit for promoting the use of a static high fee warning 
18:06:15 <plowsof[m]> Indeed, there are many attack vectors / annoying things they can do
18:07:10 <plowsof[m]> I think a trusted list for simple node users is a good solution (instead of them choosing from a pool of nodes with malicious actors in) 
18:07:27 <w[m]> I was going to suggest the same ^
18:07:44 <monerobull[m]> just make sure to implement a fallback to random nodes.
18:08:00 <w[m]> I did some digging and found out that moneujo uses static nodes + 1 node that selects random
18:08:50 <w[m]> monerobull[m]: I think a list of 20-100 community nodes ia sufficient.
18:08:50 <w[m]> IMO shouldn't fall back to random. Most malicious actors try to get on the auto-lists
18:08:57 <merope> plowsof[m]: I originally suggested checking against the main seed nodes of the network: they're already "trusted" for bootstrapping the network, so we might as well take advantage of them
18:09:15 <plowsof[m]> Interesting, Feather wallet also has some list of nodes it performs health checks on 
18:09:15 <cryptogrampy[m]> Hmmm I don't think it's a good idea to increase reliance on the seeds
18:09:22 <merope> merope: Though the list should also include other nodes too - don't want to put all your eggs in a single basket
18:10:17 <plowsof[m]> Have we all updates our wallets/binaries? 👀https://www.getmonero.org/2022/04/29/monero-GUI-0.17.3.2-released.html
18:10:34 <merope> I did just this morning!
18:11:02 <plowsof[m]> Woohoo! the DNS records have been / are going to be? updates so the message to update should have appeared? can anyone confirm?
18:12:27 <w[m]> <monerobull[m]> "i wrote kraken support and..." <- Seth For Privacy: 
18:12:27 <w[m]> Herominers is on board as well
18:12:29 <monerobull[m]> i updated and now i have to put "monero" instead of "gui" into the searchbar to find it. (since i installed git)
18:12:37 <w[m]> * Seth For Privacy:  is on board as well
18:13:03 <monerobull[m]> someone with an @monero.social should still write them
18:13:25 <w[m]> Seth For Privacy: 
18:13:25 <w[m]> Herominers is on board as well
18:13:38 <plowsof[m]> Just plugging our news outlets: https://www.monero.observer/ https://revuo-xmr.com/ https://www.themoneromoon.com/
18:14:13 <plowsof[m]> shall we jump into discussing CCS ideas?
18:14:53 <plowsof[m]> I would like to start in reverse order
18:14:56 <plowsof[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/282
18:15:07 <monerobull[m]> heh
18:15:22 <monerobull[m]> you might have heard of the "drama"
18:15:32 <plowsof[m]> Comments / discussion can be seen in the repo
18:16:37 <plowsof[m]> there was an issue of proposor contacting voter via PM - i have reached out to both parties to resolve the issue, and i think both do not wish to take it further? But we should stress that voters should not be contacted privately , all discussion should be in the open. can we agree? 👀
18:17:34 <monerobull[m]> i just wanted to clarify that i dont feel like im in the wrong for posting those chatlogs
18:17:45 <merope> plowsof[m]: I think it's a nice principle to have - but hardly enforceable in the real world, imo...
18:17:57 <monerobull[m]> monerobull[m]: especially since they told me i could do it
18:18:37 <plowsof[m]> Does anyone have any further input on this particular CCS ? or can we leave at 'as is' using the comments in the repo there?
18:19:01 <w[m]> Not to enforce, but just courtesy.
18:19:01 <w[m]> No coc here :)
18:19:01 <w[m]> I think sharing e2e encrypted chats is .. a bad look.
18:19:01 <w[m]> Take the chat public but dont post the pm unless its harassment..
18:19:06 <monerobull[m]> im still for closing it. no point to have it clogging up the ideas anymore
18:19:34 <monerobull[m]> > <@w:monero.social> Not to enforce, but just courtesy.... (full message at https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/download/libera.chat/b3d44fe6d74c0e26c1eeba5e168083783b495e9c)
18:20:02 <monerobull[m]> "you dont understand that  giving a downvote to someones proposal publicly  is extremely rude?" lmao
18:21:16 <w[m]> For the proposal.
18:21:16 <w[m]> I, like others, am confused about how that would work.
18:21:16 <w[m]> Im all for afganiatan downloading cake wallet an using it, but not sure how the CCS helps an entire country 
18:21:18 <cryptogrampy[m]> It seems pretty clear that there isn't community consensus on it.  There were a few decent suggestions in the CCS discussion, and I think it would be good for Spirobel to reintroduce it in a more palatable way in the future.
18:22:12 <plowsof[m]> Right ok, lets move on:
18:22:12 <plowsof[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/296
18:22:12 <plowsof[m]> We currently have an issue with translations, our coordinator is awol and we dont have much/many reviewers. this is quite a problem at the moment. 
18:22:30 <plowsof[m]> so they seem to stagnate / people not willing to review .. it is an ongoing problem 
18:23:33 <monerobull[m]> i wanted a mod account restricted to german to merge translations funded by the ccs after reviewing them. plowsof wasnt allowed to give that to me and i feel like its essentially making translations we already funded entirely worthless
18:24:16 <plowsof[m]> It is indeed an ongoing problem, glad we have shed some light on it.
18:24:17 <monerobull[m]> i would do that for free, i wont put "upvotes" on translations for them to never get merged
18:24:41 <plowsof[m]> Moving on - Patronero - Open Source project for donating by mining
18:24:47 <plowsof[m]> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/310
18:25:07 <monerobull[m]> it sounds cook but realistically, who would ever download a miner to support someone
18:25:28 <monerobull[m]> s/cook/cool/
18:25:47 <monerobull[m]> thats going to end up with less users than the bisq zcash trade-pair between today and january 2021
18:27:00 <merope> plowsof[m]: I think if we can't get a hold of the original creator of that proposal, we should redirect the funds to a new contributor willing to step up. I do realize this might create a tricky precedent in the CCS inner workings though (unless it already exists)?
18:27:04 <merope> * already exists?)
18:27:20 <monerobull[m]> merope: nope he already translated everything
18:27:30 <cryptogrampy[m]> i think a public api that uses an agreed upon shared database (git repo?) of public addresses people would like to receive donations at would be much more useful than a one off mining thing.  
18:27:31 <monerobull[m]> not his fault it doesnt get approved
18:28:05 <monerobull[m]> aka close patronero
18:28:32 <w[m]> Monerobull THE HAMMER
18:28:47 <plowsof[m]> Lets talk about https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/311 
18:29:08 <merope> plowsof slow down please 😅
18:29:08 <monerobull[m]> i dont know enough about that one to call anything
18:29:20 <plowsof[m]> Check the comments. This proposer is unknown, but returned with a demo / proof of concept 
18:29:27 <merope> monerobull[m]: I think this existed already, at some point in the past. The only problem is the extremely low profitability of mining, so unless the donor has a ton of hashrate, it won't be very useful
18:30:15 <monerobull[m]> plowsof[m]: oh that was the guy who put some shit into the site to prohibit people looking at the pages source code lmao
18:30:23 <Rucknium[m]> Right. I think that Patronero may cost more in CCS funds than it raises.
18:31:05 <monerobull[m]> just to have it in writing : consensus has been reached to close patronero
18:31:41 <merope> Oh wow, I just noticed that the patronero project aims to do a whole desktop app just for setting up all the software automatically
18:32:00 <plowsof[m]> to be fair, the proposer might not have been aware of this meeting* (perhaps to defend his case)
18:32:16 <merope> Which might be nice as a project of its own, but the surrounding context is unnecessary
18:32:51 <merope> Also, not sure why they'd need two different apps, one for donors and one for donees... since they basically do the same things
18:33:16 <merope> Definitely a no from me on Patronero as-is
18:33:51 <plowsof[m]> monerobull[m]: The funds asked for are quite high also, and CCS rules state that you can't have closed sources at any stage 
18:34:27 <monerobull[m]> yeah just put a monero address if you take donations, mining for donating is not really needed
18:34:42 <w[m]> And say they are covering the server costs..
18:34:42 <w[m]> Sounds like they plan to monetize the one of the versions, or remove features.
18:34:42 <w[m]> Else, why 2 versions
18:35:17 <cryptogrampy[m]> I think the business kit idea seems very cool, personally.  
18:36:09 <plowsof[m]> btw : a demo of the ' Multi scene monero solutions' can be seen here https://monero-shop-demo.yy.ee/
18:37:00 <cryptogrampy[m]> It's an all in one docker deployable web shop and he's going to give a vending machine example 
18:37:26 <cryptogrampy[m]> i guess the alternative we have today is wordpress/woocommerce
18:37:33 <cryptogrampy[m]> and maybe btcpayserver
18:37:40 <cryptogrampy[m]> for all in one self-hostable stores
18:37:54 <monerobull[m]> but is that worth 100+ xmr
18:38:05 <plowsof[m]> CryptoWoo also 
18:38:09 <w[m]> And why 2 versions
18:39:30 <plowsof[m]> right, now for https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/314
18:40:05 <plowsof[m]> do we even have to discuss that this goes to funding immediately ? 
18:40:40 <monerobull[m]> nope
18:40:49 <cryptogrampy[m]> On the business kit one- it might be good for someone to ask why it should get  community funded / why people need it over existing solutions 
18:41:05 <w[m]> And if they plan to monetize 
18:41:12 <plowsof[m]> is midipoet here 👀
18:41:24 <w[m]> Re serphis
18:41:24 <w[m]> Agreed
18:42:10 <merope> +1 yes on Seraphis PoC
18:42:43 <plowsof[m]> and it has over 12+ updoots also pretty unanimous for koe 
18:43:40 <plowsof[m]> midipoet doesnt seem to be here so i will skip over the workgroup updates for now 
18:43:58 <plowsof[m]> but we can discuss Work in progress ccs proposals 
18:44:02 <monerobull[m]> so. kill patronero and afgahnistan, merge seraphis wallet. further discussion on the biz kit
18:44:48 <plowsof[m]> I believe the hardfork date being set has of been great importance to the OSPEAD proposal by Rucknium 
18:45:02 <plowsof[m]> -of
18:45:22 <Rucknium[m]> Biz kit should go out and get more engagement. I think it is strongly improved from its initial draft
18:45:41 <Rucknium[m]> plowsof: Yes...let me get my Reddit comment on that
18:45:55 <plowsof[m]> Thanks!
18:46:25 <Rucknium[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/u5ab7x/comment/i50u63e/
18:46:38 <plowsof[m]> Thanks 
18:47:17 <Rucknium[m]> In short, I'll be using the hard fork (and rise of ring size from 11 to 16) to help with the statistical estimation, so the timeline is now more clear
18:47:17 <plowsof[m]> i will share what ive been up to this past week also reg. work in progress list
18:47:48 <plowsof[m]> i've been trying to re-unite funds from the CCS to their rightful owners (sorry for the spam luigi), and trying to see if any of our devs have issues. 
18:47:52 <plowsof[m]> The monero-bash contributor was asking for 'all' of his funds to be donated to the General Fund because of an issue with the last milestone. After a push in the right direction, They have now completed / released all milestones and paid out in full. https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/297
18:47:52 <plowsof[m]> Release notes: https://github.com/hinto-janaiyo/monero-bash/releases/tag/v1.5
18:48:02 <plowsof[m]> Some people had payments overdue because of a slight communication error which i discovered by poking people, also resolved.
18:48:23 <plowsof[m]> I noticed the 'Monero casino' proposal (for 1 xmr) was looking lost in the comments, not able to contact anyone on IRC/matrix , this will also be resolved shortly https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/304
18:49:14 <midipoet> plowsof[m]: sorry, I am here 
18:49:26 <plowsof[m]> hello there
18:49:37 <plowsof[m]> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/midipoet-Oslo_Freedom_Forum_CCS_proposal.html
18:49:41 <midipoet> As an update to my CCS, I have received half funds as a payout and organised flight and hotel for Oslo. 
18:50:27 <monerobull[m]> midipoet: enjoy the vacation /s
18:50:34 <midipoet> I do have a question for the community on what type of "educational" material to hand out over there, as I know some were hesitant about that. Previously we handed out paper wallets and also a flyer with info about Monero 
18:51:17 <merope> plowsof[m]: Honestly I'm not really a fan of that proposal going thorugh the CCS. We already have enough people paranoid about "monero gonna get delisted any day now", and officially endorsing a for-profit gambling platform is not good optics for the project imo
18:51:43 <merope> Not to mention the fact that - as the author temselves says - they already tried and failed once vefore
18:52:20 <w[m]> midipoet: 5$ Donations like doug
18:52:37 <monerobull[m]> merope: watch them run with all the "investor" money
18:52:48 <midipoet> This was the material in 2019
18:52:49 <midipoet> https://e1.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=kZ1cPzZ483Wnqa82AmXNNxv73AoUHvDmJSV
18:53:22 <monerobull[m]> why bird
18:53:47 <plowsof[m]> can you plug the place that you are going to be posting the review/blog after the event also midipoet?
18:54:50 <plowsof[m]> i would like to drop in some open ideas now (with 5 minutes left until the hour)
18:54:59 <plowsof[m]> a. Adding --rpc-access-control-origins=* to a public node config to help the monero-javascript ecosystem. 
18:55:06 <plowsof[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8168
18:55:38 <midipoet> plowsof[m]: I hadn't thought of a more official outlet other than Reddit, to be honest. Along with the Exit Strategy podcast episode. Open to ideas on venues 
18:55:42 <plowsof[m]> also 'zmq' , hopefully Seth For Privacy can look into it and add it to his vast monerod tutorial / docker infrastructure 
18:55:57 <plowsof[m]> quote from cyrpto grampy:
18:55:57 <plowsof[m]> Can anyone speak to adding --rpc-access-control-origins=* to a public node config? It's a more usable feature with the latest release and I'd like to see more public nodes adopt it if possible :)
18:57:17 <plowsof[m]> Reddit/Matrix is always great, thanks
18:58:29 <plowsof[m]> also, anyone interested in 'podcasting 2.0' using monero? agates (Alecks Gates) would like to hear from you.
19:00:00 <merope> I'll drop one idea for a potential future CCS proposal: what about promoting Monero in the UAE? Dubai seems to be stepping up as a potential future financial center for the crypto world. Even Kraken has opened a regional office there now, and they are licensed to operate as a regulated exchange in the region. If other "crypto-hype" projects can do it, why not us too?
19:00:18 <plowsof[m]> I would also like to state that a Dev is for life not just for release day , please reach out if you have any issues/problems <3 
19:00:40 <w[m]> <plowsof[m]> "a. Adding --rpc-access-control-..." <- I got lost in the timeline, but vtnerd: has security concerns when it was first introduced 
19:00:59 <merope> The potential for financial development is great - and I'm not talking about price lambos here, I'm talking about increasing the size of the Monero economy. Increase the velocity of money
19:01:33 <w[m]> Cheap hydro too I think. I know a few eth miners out there that had never heard of monero 
19:02:09 <plowsof[m]> The hour appears to be up, apologies for rushing some parts, its been a while, tried to get through as much as possible, thank you for attending !
19:02:30 <w[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/1677#issuecomment-277488905
19:02:30 <w[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/2408#issuecomment-328522228
19:02:39 <w[m]> plowsof: 
19:02:49 <plowsof[m]> Thanks!
19:03:44 <plowsof[m]> I guess we can schedule another one next week same time 🤷