accept voluntary payments

[chadwhitacre]

@naspeh How is this your first GitHub issue or pull request? Is your software perfect? :-)

I learned of this project on the Pycoders Weekly mailing list. It looks promising! :-) I was at the Platform Cooperatives conference last weekend, where I saw growing interest amongst non-techies in alternatives to proprietary platforms such as Gmail. I think your project could gain traction if you work hard and market it right.

I'm writing to ask whether you've considered setting up a way for your users to voluntarily pay you for Mailur. Some options for this include:

https://flattr.com/
https://salt.bountysource.com/
https://gratipay.com/ (disclosure: I'm from Gratipay)
https://www.patreon.com/

... and of course PayPal. :-)

Accepting voluntary payments from users is one way to fund your open-source work, which is important so that you avoid burnout and are able to dedicate sufficient resources for your project to succeed.

One way or another, best of luck! :-)

[chadwhitacre]

I had a long pause in the development of Mailur when I was working on a commercial project accumulating some money. I came back to a nearly full-time development of this project about half a year ago. Now, I have to find a new full-time job again, because I've spent almost all the money I had accumulated before, so it means I will work on Mailur significantly less (or with pause again) in near future.

https://pusto.org/mailur/alpha/

[naspeh]

Hi @whit537, thank you for an advice.

I'm trying my best to make it perfect :). I had three small pull requests already.

I saw Gratipay(starred it) and you when researching such thing. I wanted to use Paypal, but I live in Ukraine where we can't receive payments, but just send them. This why Gratipay was out (btw: I really love your project over competitors). Then I choose patreon, I prepared page and used it on site, but then removed it :). Maybe I should wait longer, but I just saw, that wasn't working when I had some traffic from reddit. I considered that I should push Mailur to next state without donation page yet.

BTW: Why have you put flattr on the first place?

[chadwhitacre]

I saw Gratipay(starred it)
(btw: I really love your project over competitors)

Thank you! 💃

I'm trying my best to make it perfect :). I had three small pull requests already.

Ah, I missed that with GitHub's recent clearer separation of PRs from issues, sorry. I guess nobody's perfect after all! :-)

I wanted to use Paypal, but I live in Ukraine where we can't receive payments, but just send them.

Drat! Does TransferWise work in the Ukraine? We've been using them in special cases so far and are having good luck. Maybe we should explore offering that as a first-class option?

I considered that I should push Mailur to next state without donation page yet.

My view is that, for open-source and open culture projects to really win against proprietary culture, we need to think about the economic side as much as the technical side. Reading Traction helped solidify this for me, where they suggest dedicating 50% to marketing and 50% to product development even from the outset. Making an open-source project as a labor of love is fine. But if you want it to be economically viable in the long run, I think it's valuable to think about that right from the beginning. My 2¢, anyway. :-)

BTW: Why have you put flattr on the first place?

Respect for elders? :-) They were the first of the (non-PayPal) options to appear on the scene, in 2010. Bountysource and Gratipay were launched in 2012. Patreon came along in 2013.

[naspeh]

Reposted.

| Perfection is not attainable,
| but if we chase perfection
| we can catch excellence.
|
| -- Vince Lombardi

Drat! Does TransferWise work in the Ukraine? We've been using them in special cases so far and are having good luck. Maybe we should explore offering that as a first-class option?

Yep, maybe. TransferWise works in Ukraine, but I haven't used it yet. Patreon support payoneer in my case.

I will put again donation button from Gratipay to the site if I have such option (I'm not really enjoy patreon platform too).

Respect for elders? :-)

Got it 👍

My 2¢, anyway. :-)

Thank you for sharing. I even tried fundraising on bountysource after the first intro (I didn't like it's slow interface and some other moments). It didn't work at all, I think I'm not good in project promotion, I should learn this skill somehow. But now I don't have time for that :).

[chadwhitacre]

Patreon support payoneer in my case.

Ah, okay. We talked to Payoneer a few years ago (gratipay/gratipay.com#481) but it didn't work out. I don't think we're quite ready to reapproach them.

I will put again donation button from Gratipay to the site if I have such option

Okay, I've created a ticket about integrating TransferWise (gratipay/gratipay.com#3855) and I will circle back here when we accomplish that.

[chadwhitacre]

I think I'm not good in project promotion, I should learn this skill somehow. But now I don't have time for that :).

Unfortunately, I think that's going to be the limiting factor, whatever the platform. :-/

I think we need to get hackers better at business and marketing! :-)

Maybe http://marketingforhackers.com/ is helpful? Or maybe you have a friend to become your "cofounder" and work on the promotion side? Brainstorms ... ☁️ ⚡ ☔

[naspeh]

Okay, I've created a ticket about integrating TransferWise (gratipay/gratipay.com#3855) and I will circle back here when we accomplish that.

Cool, thanks.

BTW: I saw, that flattr used to Skrill, it isn't your case, is it?

Maybe http://marketingforhackers.com/ is helpful?

Thank you for sharing :).

[naspeh]

BTW: @whit537, I have a PayPal account, so I could theoretically create a team, but the payment won't come to my account then.

[chadwhitacre]

I saw, that flattr used to Skrill, it isn't your case, is it?

I think we looked into Skrill, ... here, I found the ticket: gratipay/gratipay.com#718. Reopening. :-)

I have a PayPal account, so I could theoretically create an team, but the payment won't come to my account then.

I wondered about that. We have one or two PayPal payouts that consistently fail. Maybe they're in Ukraine? :)

[naspeh]

I wondered about that. We have one or two PayPal payouts that consistently fail. Maybe they're in Ukraine? :)

Why not, or any other country with such policy.

Updated: [Countries with the ability to send payments](https://cms.paypal.com/ua/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/Residence_full#Countries with the ability to send payments:)

[naspeh]

JFYI. About Payoneer from Terms and Conditions for the Payoneer Global Payment Service:

By using the Global Payment Service, you also confirm that you will not accept payments in connection with the following activities, items or services:
...
• Crowdfunding
• Digital currency;
• Donations;
...

So yes, it is no reason to reapproach them

[chadwhitacre]

Some Patreon was able to strike a deal with them. :-/

[naspeh]

They have ambiguous description here:

Can I really receive payments from any US company?

Yes! With your updated US Payment Service account details you can receive payments from any US company. Please note, however, that certain services/activities are still restricted in accordance with our official Terms and Conditions. For a full list of prohibited services click here.

%)

[naspeh]

Maybe Uphold could fit you, they have an open api.

[webmaven]

Whoah, Uphold looks really interesting, I wonder how they are dealing with the legal issues that are constraining Gratipay...

Particularly relevant to GP:

• https://uphold.com/en/blog/posts/uphold/no-bitcoin-no-problem-funding-your-uphold-account-just-got-even-easier
• https://uphold.com/en/blog/posts/uphold/congratulations-bitwage-takes-the-future-of-payroll-to-the-next-level

[techtonik]

@webmaven Uphold is FinCEN Registered Money Services Business (MSB) - see https://uphold.com/en/compliance Do you remember how much does it cost?

[webmaven]

@techtonik Ah, so they basically threw VC money at the problem.

[naspeh]

I'm closing this issue, seems it will take a time from your side, if something is changed I will reopen it.

Anyway, thank you guys.

[chadwhitacre]

Sounds good, thanks @naspeh. :-)