Would like to have configuration variable to turn off gravity wells

[kheckwrecker]

I understand the scientific basis for gravity wells in the game, but from a gameplay perspective, they're just confusing, boring and frustrating. When I launch into space, I would really like to just be able to accelerate away from the planet I'm launching from at full speed. Crawling away from a planet (especially in a Llama) is just painful. Worse than that, even jump points have a gravity well, and that doesn't make any sense to me, especially since you can just fly through them. If it was a configuration variable, then purists can leave it turned on, while the rest of us are moving swiftly to our next target.

[evertvorster]

Hmm, did you know that by hitting "Y" you set your computer from maneuver mode to travel mode?
Point your ship in the direction that you want to travel in, hit Y, set full speed, and that gravity well will be behind you shortly.

Honestly, the gravity wells are used for telling the faster than light drive where to stop working. The science fiction literature at the time said that it could not work in a gravity well. For game developers this meant that it was an easy way of "arriving" at your destination, as the SPEC drive would just work less and less until you are going at normal speeds.

In short, I don't think this is an easy request, and the way to deal with the gravity wells efficiently has been built into the game already.

[royfalk]

Hmm, did you know that by hitting "Y" you set your computer from maneuver mode to travel mode?
Point your ship in the direction that you want to travel in, hit Y, set full speed, and that gravity well will be behind you shortly.

I knew that and yet I still forget and don't use it and get annoyed by it. I've been developing this game for several years and haven't actually played it (beyond dev testing) since a long time ago. I don't know how to roll, or set speed to max with one key.

The relevant code is in Movable::GetMaxWarpFieldStrength. I multiplied the end result by 10 and my speed out of the gravity well increased by 10 when in warp.

   if (vmag > warp_max_effective_velocity) {
        v *= warp_max_effective_velocity / vmag; //HARD LIMIT
        minimum_multiplier *= warp_max_effective_velocity / vmag;
    }
    return minimum_multiplier * 10;
}

I won't submit this as a PR as the gameplay seems a bit broken. Hitting a makes you go 10 times faster. This is especially weird when you approach a gravity well. The auto pilot turns off SPEC and if you hit a again, it will go faster for a second or two.

I'd like a solution that's more gradual but the code is hard for me this morning.

[kheckwrecker]

Hmm, did you know that by hitting "Y" you set your computer from maneuver mode to travel mode? Point your ship in the direction that you want to travel in, hit Y, set full speed, and that gravity well will be behind you shortly.

Honestly, the gravity wells are used for telling the faster than light drive where to stop working. The science fiction literature at the time said that it could not work in a gravity well. For game developers this meant that it was an easy way of "arriving" at your destination, as the SPEC drive would just work less and less until you are going at normal speeds.

In short, I don't think this is an easy request, and the way to deal with the gravity wells efficiently has been built into the game already.

I understand what you're saying from a science fiction perspective, but this a game, and launching from a planet and sitting in space and not knowing if you're actually moving or not is just boring and frustrating especially to new players. When I play, I want to have fun and hanging in space barely moving (especially in the starting Llama) is not fun. That's why I suggested a configuration variable. For hardcore science fiction fans, leave it turned on. For those that just want to get flying, turn it off. As far as I know, games like Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous or even Privateer never bothered with gravity wells. I understand them, I just don't like them. It's even worse, in my opinion, that jump points have gravity wells. To me that makes no sense at all.

[kheckwrecker]

Hmm, did you know that by hitting "Y" you set your computer from maneuver mode to travel mode? Point your ship in the direction that you want to travel in, hit Y, set full speed, and that gravity well will be behind you shortly.

Also, actually did not know this as it does not appear as a selection when I hit the Esc key to look at key bindings.

From my limited testing, I'm not sure how well it works. When I select it, speed does increase somewhat. However, when I deselected Travel mode and turned on Autopilot, it appears that Autopilot no longer works and my ship never picks up speed.

Also, is it just me, or has anyone else noticed engine sounds are not working?

[BenjamenMeyer]

@royfalk just use \ to go to max and tab use afterburners. I forget the roll offhand, but it's something like HOME/END. You can use the ESC key to find the keys while in flight.

@kheckwrecker fully understand. I get a little frustrated myself; one reason I add afterburners as quickly as a I can.
FWIW, the original devs went to great lengths to make the physics accurate. There's a setting that can be flipped between a game physics style (ala Wing Commander) and a realistic style in the settings app. Both can be fun but in different ways.

I do agree we need to change something to make it more enjoyable in both modes. I often get frustrated with docking and how long it takes to get within docking range.

[evertvorster]

What attracted me to Vega Strike in the first place is the sense of realism.
When I grossly overload my Llama with metal ores it takes much longer to get away from gravity wells.

Some things should be difficult, many games have the grind built in somewhere else.
In Vega Strike, you grind a little, then you buy a faster craft, and then the gravity wells are less painful and you are flooded with Dopamine & Seratonin for a job well done.

This encourages you to play the game more, and buy even better craft. Bigger, faster, more armnament, whatever floats your boat.

I guess you can try this less of a gravity well, but I can almost guarantee that you will find yourself playing Vega Strike less and you won't be able to put your finger on to the reason as to why.
I felt this a little bit when I was zooming around with a Vendetta. The game became too easy, and boring. So, I bought a slower, heavier Goddard, and now pick fights with big ships. :P

The boringness come from the game being too easy, much like playing doom with god mode... fun for five seconds, but then the game becomes boring.

Which is why we should actually think about locking down the save files so people can't just give themselves infinite money and make the game boring that way.

[kheckwrecker]

I guess you can try this less of a gravity well, but I can almost guarantee that you will find yourself playing Vega Strike less and you won't be able to put your finger on to the reason as to why. I felt this a little bit when I was zooming around with a Vendetta. The game became too easy, and boring. So, I bought a slower, heavier Goddard, and now pick fights with big ships. :P

The boringness come from the game being too easy, much like playing doom with god mode... fun for five seconds, but then the game becomes boring.

Which is why we should actually think about locking down the save files so people can't just give themselves infinite money and make the game boring that way.

Having played and beta-tested games (including some big name games) for over 40 years, I'm pretty comfortable with what I find to be fun and what I don't. I've also learned that what I find fun rarely matches what others find to be fun, so I hesitate to dictate how others should play any game. That includes leaving "cheats" or cheat codes in games for those that want them. That's why I've asked for a configuration variable to reduce/eliminate gravity wells. Those who prefer a more purist approach can leave them turned on and those that don't can turn them off. Everybody gets to play the game the way they want, and everyone is happy!

I happily appreciate the opportunity to play this wonderful game and also appreciate the opportunity to leave feedback. I'm old enough to realize that not everything I suggest will be implemented, and I'm okay with that. So if the developers choose not to go down this road, that's fine with me. I still get to play!

[kheckwrecker]

I often get frustrated with docking and how long it takes to get within docking range.

Docking has a number of issues - how long it takes to get into range (autopilot cuts speed too soon I think), inconsistent range to docking, the distance remaining to docking keeps blanking out on the HUD, and sometimes you're well within docking range before actual docking occurs (I think this might be related to the previous problem, though).

The problem with overdrives not working after upgrades adds a bit to the problem (since you can't afterburn into docking range) but I see there's a patch in testing to fix that problem.

[royfalk]

Docking has a number of issues - how long it takes to get into range (autopilot cuts speed too soon I think),

I've been looking at this code for quite a bit the last few days. It's incredibly complicated. Far more complicated than it ought to be. I've been trying a whole bunch of things, including changing settings and code and when things work, they break other things. The distance where auto-pilot stops and where SPEC becomes 1 (same speed as normal max speed) are calculated in several functions full of complicated code. I was looking for a quick fix and couldn't find it yet.

inconsistent range to docking,

It's calculated as a function of the radius of the planet. Larger planets such as Atlantis have docking further away.

the distance remaining to docking keeps blanking out on the HUD,

There's a bug for that.

The problem with overdrives not working after upgrades adds a bit to the problem (since you can't afterburn into docking range) but I see there's a patch in testing to fix that problem.

I opened an issue for it after discovering it myself and then discovered I fixed it a month back. Can you reply on vegastrike/Assets-Masters#55 with information about your game? What branches are you on and what ship are you flying.

[kheckwrecker]

inconsistent range to docking,

It's calculated as a function of the radius of the planet. Larger planets such as Atlantis have docking further away.

I guess that's logical, but if it leads to confusion and frustration, why bother? However, now that it's in place, probably not worth changing.

[royfalk]

I guess that's logical, but if it leads to confusion and frustration, why bother?

That's because you don't dock at the core of the planet but rather some distance above its surface. For that you need the radius. If it were me, I'd go x km beyond the planet surface and be done with it.

[kheckwrecker]

That's because you don't dock at the core of the planet but rather some distance above its surface. For that you need the radius. If it were me, I'd go x km beyond the planet surface and be done with it.

That's what I was thinking as well.

[yowshi]

Hmm, did you know that by hitting "Y" you set your computer from maneuver mode to travel mode? Point your ship in the direction that you want to travel in, hit Y, set full speed, and that gravity well will be behind you shortly.

Honestly, the gravity wells are used for telling the faster than light drive where to stop working. The science fiction literature at the time said that it could not work in a gravity well. For game developers this meant that it was an easy way of "arriving" at your destination, as the SPEC drive would just work less and less until you are going at normal speeds.

In short, I don't think this is an easy request, and the way to deal with the gravity wells efficiently has been built into the game already.

it takes forever to reach max speed of the traveling mode, especially in the the starting llama. it also burns your yellow fuel bar like water. i wish the docking range of planets was much closer to the spec engage range.

also if you lock down the save file i am just gonna cheat engine.

[evertvorster]

it takes forever to reach max speed of the traveling mode, especially in the the starting llama. it also burns your yellow fuel bar like water. i wish the docking range of planets was much closer to the spec engage range.

This is true. However it is not necessary to get to full travel speed. In my playing of Vega Strike none of my ships have ever reached their full travel speed.

Having your ship being slow is giving you an incentive to get a faster ship.

However, try this the next time you want to escape from a gravity well:

We'll take the run from Atlantis to Serenity as an example.
Select Serenity, orient your craft in the general direction of your destination. Tap Y to get into travel mode, and then \ for full speed setting. Now hit Shoft+A to engage SPEC. It won't work straight away, but it will soon start multiplying your speed. Once you reach light speed, tap A for auto pilot, Y to turn off travel mode, and \ to set your speed to max maneuver.

Conversely when nearing Atlantis, don't wait for the auto pilot to kick off. Rather, switch off auto pilot off some earlier time. Still heading towards Atlantis, tap Y for travel mode, \ to set max speed, and Shift + A to turn Spec on again. Watch the SPEC multiplier, and when that reaches 1, turn it off, otherwise you can't land.
You'll notice that you are now travelling MUCH faster to Atlantis, and get there in no time.

Of course, once you made a bit of money you can buy a faster ship, and this process becomes much less painful.

I have a series of videos on the subject here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWcTQ4suy__b0EgD56Eg6XAnhN6TMNSU-

[royfalk]

Honestly, I tried to figure this out when the issue was opened. The code isn't long but gave me a headache.
Ping me after #1016 and I'll take another look.

[yowshi]

it takes forever to reach max speed of the traveling mode, especially in the the starting llama. it also burns your yellow fuel bar like water. i wish the docking range of planets was much closer to the spec engage range.

This is true. However it is not necessary to get to full travel speed. In my playing of Vega Strike none of my ships have ever reached their full travel speed.

Having your ship being slow is giving you an incentive to get a faster ship.

However, try this the next time you want to escape from a gravity well:

We'll take the run from Atlantis to Serenity as an example. Select Serenity, orient your craft in the general direction of your destination. Tap Y to get into travel mode, and then \ for full speed setting. Now hit Shoft+A to engage SPEC. It won't work straight away, but it will soon start multiplying your speed. Once you reach light speed, tap A for auto pilot, Y to turn off travel mode, and \ to set your speed to max maneuver.

Conversely when nearing Atlantis, don't wait for the auto pilot to kick off. Rather, switch off auto pilot off some earlier time. Still heading towards Atlantis, tap Y for travel mode, \ to set max speed, and Shift + A to turn Spec on again. Watch the SPEC multiplier, and when that reaches 1, turn it off, otherwise you can't land. You'll notice that you are now travelling MUCH faster to Atlantis, and get there in no time.

Of course, once you made a bit of money you can buy a faster ship, and this process becomes much less painful.

I have a series of videos on the subject here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWcTQ4suy__b0EgD56Eg6XAnhN6TMNSU-

i personally aim for a plowshare as my first actual ship. smaller faster ships cant carry the cargo and so cant earn the profits for a real ship in any reasonable time. and plowshares can mount decent weapons and tractor beams allowing me to do piracy, though mostly of pirates otherwise i die to the entire system being hostile.

thing is plowshares arent faster then llama, and this argument of incentive to get a faster ship is a bit crap to me. grinding past a gravity well is really just delaying the fun for me. the fun for me being finding an already hostile pirate owned OX or other transport and doing my own piracy. it should be noted that even without the gravity well it would already take forever to get yourself into something other then a llama. the gravity well grind isnt helping you to earn the fun it's just in the way.

[kheckwrecker]

thing is plowshares arent faster then llama, and this argument of incentive to get a faster ship is a bit crap to me. grinding past a gravity well is really just delaying the fun for me. the fun for me being finding an already hostile pirate owned OX or other transport and doing my own piracy. it should be noted that even without the gravity well it would already take forever to get yourself into something other then a llama. the gravity well grind isnt helping you to earn the fun it's just in the way.

I've gotten used to gravity wells while play testing, but, like you, I find them to be a grind. Never tried a plowshare, but the best approach I've come up with in the Llama is to pick my destination, hit autopilot to get oriented directly away from the departure base, turn off autopilot and hold down the afterburner key for a minute or two, and then try autopilot again to see if SPEC will kick in. If not, try again. It's a grind, but it's the best I've come up with. Personally, I'd rather just be able to turn it off. But others like it, so they should have the option to leave it turned on.

[BenjamenMeyer]

yeah... even with WC:Privateer I tended to add an afterburner as quickly as I could and then use that to get away from ships/planets/etc to get to autopilot. But do agree that it would be nicer to get in closer.

[yowshi]

a thing about planets in WC:Priv was that the docking/launch werent that far away. you didnt need to be 12 km from the planet in order to spec drive away. unless there were hostiles but that's a different issue. the dock range and launch ranges in WC:priv were like 5 seconds of flight time apart from eachother, or less it's been a while but i remember when in space combat you had to be careful cause you had seconds between hearing "now entering an automated landing zone." and auto landing which could ruin your defend job.
it was something to play around in defend missions but something that was helpful in any other type of game play.