3.1.2 Language of Parts clarification

[EmptyEnd6893]

I have been wondering about the second example for the Language of Parts understanding page. I have repeated it below for convenience.

'An HTML Web page includes links to versions of the page in other languages (e.g., Deutsch, Français, Nederlands, Catalan, etc.). The text of each link is the name of the language, in that language. The language of each link is indicated via a lang attribute.'

Are the names of the languages not considered proper names in this case? If so, it seems that the criterion would not apply. I realise that language names are slightly unusual in that languages frequently have their own word for other languages, but wouldn't they still count as proper names? Any help would be appreciated.

[TestPartners]

No, because they are adjectives, not nouns. For example, England is a proper name, but English isn't.

[EmptyEnd6893]

I know that the pronunciation is not always the same but this fact seems to support the case for not adding a language tag so that the name is pronounced in a way that is familiar for users who do not speak the foreign language. In the third example on the understanding page, there is a good chance that the word 'podcast' is not pronounced the same way in French as it is in English so it would not make sense to me to put an english language tag on the word to throw french screen reader users off. I believe the same principle can be applied to proper nouns that do not change spelling.

[TestPartners]

With regard to "podcast", you're talking about a different exception. I agree that that exception makes sense.

But you've got it the wrong way round in the case of the language switcher. It's really important that each language is pronounced correctly for the native speaker of that language, otherwise they may not recognise that it is the link they are looking for. It doesn't matter if the language is pronounced in ways that other people don't understand because they won't be interested in that link.

[EmptyEnd6893]

To be clear, I am not talking about nouns that change spelling between languages e.g. Français and French. I am talking about what is probably most proper nouns where the spelling does not change. To give another example, I doubt you would want to add a french language tag every time you use the name 'Paris' in a language that isn't French similarly to how you probably don't want to use english tags when using the word 'podcast' in French. This is why I think the exception for proper nouns exists.

[TestPartners]

I understand that, but there are at least three different use cases.

1. A page is mostly in a language that the user speaks and that is the screen reader's default language. The page contains a proper name that is spelled in the user's language. A "lang" attribute is not necessary because the screen reader is likely to pronounce the name much the same way that the user would.
2. A page is mostly in a language that the user speaks and that is the screen reader's default language. The page contains a proper name that is spelled in the foreign language. A "lang" attribute is necessary otherwise the screen reader may mispronounce the name in such as way as to be unrecognisable.
3. A page is mostly in a language that the user does not speak and that the screen reader may or may not support. The page contains a language switcher containing a number of proper names. The names should be spelled in the foreign language. "lang" attributes are necessary otherwise the screen reader may mispronounce the name in such as way as to be unrecognisable, or the name may not be read at all.

[EmptyEnd6893]

I am not disputing any of that, I am only explaining why I think the exception for proper names was made. The apparent issue is that the understanding document does not appear to differentiate between proper names that are written differently in different languages and names that are written the same, at least as far as I can tell.