"Made in Appsterdam"

[maggix]

Hi everyone,
a question for the Community. I am currently (finally) opening up the first beta of the app I have been working on, although not regularly, for a long time now. (Of course you are invited to it, although you may not be interested in the CRM topic http://www.contactic.al).

I was wondering if it's ok (and if you think it's interesting) if I put a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on the home page, in order to spread the word?

You can consider it a way to thank all the facilities that were put in place by Appsterdam that helped me in getting this far (the Peer Lab, the workhotel at A Lab, etc.), apart of course from volunteering (which I do, more or less often) and donations (amount depending on the success ;) ).

Of course maybe you want to do some "quality assurance" in order that no bad apps get featured? In that case I am welcome to discuss about this topic!

[tross6]

Hi Giovanni--thanks for opening the topic! This is definitely interesting, and something people have talked about before.

It seems we would want to have some sort of quality assurance--not sure how that would work.

Would be great to hear others' ideas on this!

[tross6]

Just getting back on this. Until we would figure out a larger scheme, everyone okay with Giovanni putting a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on his app home page? I think it's a great idea. @ElDragonRojo @tomvanarman @matteom @mattfeigal @ribeto @ticofab @g7morris @sgoodwin @FranciscaKapar @PlayfulPandas @spllr @olmageddon @mmeiborg? @magnusdahl1 @whakkee @brunokoga @erikr @SidelineNoob @judykitteh Others?

[tross6]

And/or does anyone want to take on figuring out the program for something like this?

[tomvanarman]

I think it’s a great idea too. There are probably many other candidates for the “Made in Appsterdam” seal. Might need to develop some criteria for it’s use. I’d be happy to brainstorm with others on this.
Cheers Tara and Giovanni!

On 09 May 2014, at 08:31, tross6 notifications@github.com wrote:

Just getting back on this. Until we would figure out a larger scheme, everyone okay with Giovanni putting a "Made in Appsterdam" badge on his app home page? I think it's a great idea. @ElDragonRojo @tomvanarman @matteom @mattfeigal @ribeto @ticofab . Martinus? (Can't find your handle for some reason.) Others?

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Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[mxsasha]

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the next titstare does not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions. However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission - as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

[ticofab]

I believe it's a cool idea too. I just wonder what the criteria could be
and what would be the mutual benefits for both Appsterdam and the app-maker
/ publisher.

Roughly, I see three cases:

The Appsterdam community could become a sort of "quality assurance", like
UTZ for organic food. The thing is, UTZ is paid for its services.
The 'Made in Appsterdam' label could become a simple quality mark, that
companies pay for. At that point it could in principle be accessible to
anybody, not only people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. This
could be a way to monetise the Appsterdam efforts.

The 'Appsterdam' branding is only given to people that are somehow
connected to Appsterdam. What could be the criteria? Having built it at the
ALab? Having given a Guru Session? Having got drunk at Cafe Bax? Which jury
should be nominated to assess whether the badge is applicable or not?

Anybody can display a 'Made in Appsterdam' badge if he wants to. I'm not
sure if Appsterdam would want to go down that road.
(give that, In this specific case, Erik and Giovanni's work is definitely
of the finest quality)

On 9 May 2014 10:35, Erik Romijn notifications@github.com wrote:

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the
next titstarehttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/09/the-worst-joke-in-technology.htmldoes not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side
nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources
are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually
nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm
allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a
trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS
train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the
website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which
I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use
of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere
association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved
into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license https://www.djangoproject.com/trademarks/may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to
non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my
product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the
trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions.
However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website
is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission -
as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we
consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and
what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/115#issuecomment-42644404
.

http://famsterdamlife.com

[mmeiborg]

It’s a good idea, we have talked about this in the past and even have fantasized about a badge structure, e.g. in combination with an App Award Ceremony and bronze, silver and golden wings. As Appsterdam is a registered trade mark, there certainly are a few legal issues to be dealt with and granting usage would be subject to terms and conditions. But the rules would be simple though:

1. you are a donator to appsterdam (as a volunteer or with a monthly fee).
2. you submit your app to Appsterdam after it is accepted in the platform's app store.
3. you sign for the conditions and terms and you will get your badge.

Thanks for bringing it up, it’s on the agenda again!

Martinus

On 10 mei 2014, at 15:18, ticofab notifications@github.com wrote:

I believe it's a cool idea too. I just wonder what the criteria could be
and what would be the mutual benefits for both Appsterdam and the app-maker
/ publisher.

Roughly, I see three cases:

1. The Appsterdam community could become a sort of "quality assurance", like
   UTZ for organic food. The thing is, UTZ is paid for its services.
   The 'Made in Appsterdam' label could become a simple quality mark, that
   companies pay for. At that point it could in principle be accessible to
   anybody, not only people that are somehow connected to Appsterdam. This
   could be a way to monetise the Appsterdam efforts.
2. The 'Appsterdam' branding is only given to people that are somehow
   connected to Appsterdam. What could be the criteria? Having built it at the
   ALab? Having given a Guru Session? Having got drunk at Cafe Bax? Which jury
   should be nominated to assess whether the badge is applicable or not?
3. Anybody can display a 'Made in Appsterdam' badge if he wants to. I'm not
   sure if Appsterdam would want to go down that road.
   (give that, In this specific case, Erik and Giovanni's work is definitely
   of the finest quality)

On 9 May 2014 10:35, Erik Romijn notifications@github.com wrote:

Actually, I've already done this in the about screen of a few of my apps :)

I can see how we would want some kind of process in place, so that the
next titstarehttp://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/09/the-worst-joke-in-technology.htmldoes not prominently feature an Appsterdam logo. However, on the other side
nobody benefits from an overly bureaucratic process. Volunteer resources
are already stretched.

I would also wonder whether a basic "made in Appsterdam" is not actually
nominative use, which a trademark owner can not prevent. For example, I'm
allowed to say I am writing this on a NS train, even though NS is a
trademark. However, I would not be allowed to make an app called "NS
train", because that would cause confusion with their trademark. On the
website of my OV app, I have the logo's of all transit companies for which
I have data, which in my understanding falls under nominative use as well.

Even considering nominative use, you may still be able to forbid the use
of name or logo in association with certain products, if the mere
association already degrades the Appsterdam name. But I've never delved
into trademark law that deeply, and IANAL.

The Django trademark license https://www.djangoproject.com/trademarks/may be an interesting example too. Note that most of this license refers to
non-nominative use. For example, "Django" is a registered trademark, so my
product named "Secure Django" is only allowed with permission from the
trademark owner. Which in this case, they give under certain conditions.
However, the mentioning of being a Django developer on my personal website
is definitely nominative, and does not require any license or permission -
as that page also documents.

In other words: before we come up with a fancy QA process, I recommend we
consult a trademark lawyer to figure out what exactly is enforcable, and
what is allowed regardless of permission of the trademark holder.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/115#issuecomment-42644404
.

http://famsterdamlife.com
—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[matteom]

Personally I think there are already too many things on the table: quality assurance, badge structure, award ceremony, the "platform app store", all of which do not exist and will not for a lot of time. Hence this will never be done. And that's why it never happened, despite being an idea almost as old as Appsterdam itself.

IMO we should come up with something quick and simple, that will require a one time effort from Appsterdam and enable people to use it afterwards just by themselves (something like the licenses you see in open source software). Something you can react on when and if there is the need to. Spare the committees and the ceremonies for a day when there will be enough resources.

Also, since this is a good marketing opportunity for Appsterdam, I would not require people to be either a donor or a volunteer. People want to put a made in Appsterdam badge mainly as a thank you, to show it's done with the help of the community. Requiring being a donor or a volunteer will only result in maybe 2 or 3 apps that will have the badge, which benefits no one.

[maggix]

Hi everyone,
thanks for you inputs.
I am glad that this topic is in the back of everyone's mind, and I just
want to say that burdens and bureaucracy are not what I advocate.
I just brought this topic up because I thought it was cool to have a place
to check out what appsterdammers build, but then again, everyone is good
enough to advertise his/her own work.

So, as there's no problem (as I would expect) for putting a big thank you
and acknowledgements to Appsterdam on my page, that's what I am doing.
My app is now in Apple reviewers' hands on the App Store, so let's see what
happens next.
Time will tell :)

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Matteo Manferdini <
notifications@github.com> wrote:

Personally I think there are already too many things on the table: quality
assurance, badge structure, award ceremony, the "platform app store", all
of which do not exist and will not for a lot of time. Hence this will never
be done. And that's why it never happened, despite being an idea almost as
old as Appsterdam itself.

IMO we should come up with something quick and simple, that will require a
one time effort from Appsterdam and enable people to use it afterwards just
by themselves (something like the licenses you see in open source
software). Something you can react on when and if there is the need to.
Spare the committees and the ceremonies for a day when there will be enough
resources.

Also, since this is a good marketing opportunity for Appsterdam, I would
not require people to be either a donor or a volunteer. People want to put
a made in Appsterdam badge mainly as a thank you, to show it's done with
the help of the community. Requiring being a donor or a volunteer will only
result in maybe 2 or 3 apps that will have the badge, which benefits no one.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com//issues/115#issuecomment-43056697
.

Giovanni Maggini
Twitter: @maggix
giovanni.maggini@gmail.com
Skype:maggix04
IT +39 339 2239235 | NL +31 6 81 31 91 96