Tab Groups causes "lazy browsers" to be prematurely inserted on mozilla-central

[mzso]

Hi!

It looks like entering into panorama mode results in all unloaded tabs being inserted into content processes, with a horrible impact on performance, resource usage.

Is anyone around who might be able to fix this?

Too bad Quicksaver jumped ship too early (before FF v56). It would be nice to have non-broken addons with FF56...

Bug the implemented "lazy browsers":
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345090

[mechalynx]

Are you on FF Nightly 56? If so then you're feeling the effects of WebExtensions.

If not, then something might be wrong on your end since Tab Groups still works fine on developer edition (54). I don't remember the last time I heard it called "panorama" so I'm not sure if you're referring to Tab Groups or something else. I've tried it with multi-process as well and I haven't seen anything wrong with it.

Quicksaver didn't jump ship - he, like many other extension authors (such as the author of Greasemonkey), took a look at WebExtensions and realized it doesn't allow for the functionality of their extension and it's a massive amount of porting work for partial functionality.

[mzso]

@MechaLynx commented on 2017. máj. 2. 18:28 CEST:

Are you on FF Nightly 56? If so then you're feeling the effects of WebExtensions.

It's on v55 as of now, I'm on it. And it has nothing to do with Webextension. I only mentioned v56 because that's the last that'll support XUL addons

If not, then something might be wrong on your end since Tab Groups still works fine on developer edition (54). I've tried it with multi-process as well and I haven't seen anything wrong with it.

Nothing's wrong on my end. The issue is caused by TG. Increase the content process limit to something large , that way it's way more noticeable.

" I don't remember the last time I heard it called "panorama" so I'm not sure if you're referring to Tab Groups or something else"

I spelled it out in the issue title...

Quicksaver didn't jump ship - he, like many other extension authors (such as the author of Greasemonkey), took a look at WebExtensions and realized it doesn't allow for the functionality of their extension and it's a massive amount of porting work for partial functionality.

AKA jumped ship early. XUL addons will remain at least till v56. He stopped fixing bugs months ago.

[mechalynx]

It's on v55 as of now, I'm on it. And it has nothing to do with Webextension. I only mentioned v56 because that's the last that'll support XUL addons

Don't mention irrelevant things if you don't want people to be confused.

Nothing's wrong on my end. The issue is caused by TG. Increase the content process limit to something large , that way it's way more noticeable.

I can't reproduce this on FF54.0a2 - I switched to multiprocess, set dom.ipc.processCount to 40, restarted, opened a session with 60+ tabs, opened Tab Groups, behavior consistent with the usual (nothing extra loaded, no extra processes spawned).

This could just be a bug on nightly that'll disappear tomorrow or in two weeks. Unless you can give detailed steps on how to reproduce or find out if this is due to changes that are going to become permanent in the future, there isn't much to work with here.

The value of browser.sessionstore.restore_on_demand in your browser would be important to know as well.

I spelled it out in the issue title...

You mentioned "Tab Groups" then "panorama", but never mentioned a version. Since you used the old name, I assumed you might possibly be on an ESR version.

AKA jumped ship early. XUL addons will remain at least till v56. He stopped fixing bugs months ago.

Yes, as have other authors. Seems hardly worth the time if the whole extension becomes obsolete by the time WebExtensions replaces XPCOM entirely. You're free to buy them a cup of coffee and motivate them to fix bugs. At the very least, if you expect someone to do free work for you, don't imply they're a coward or lazy. The only reason we have Tab Groups in the first place is because he picked up the dead code from Panorama.

[mzso]

@MechaLynx commented on 2017. máj. 2. 19:59 CEST:

I can't reproduce this on FF54.0a2 - I switched to multiprocess, set dom.ipc.processCount to 40, restarted, opened a session with 60+ tabs, opened Tab Groups, behavior consistent with the usual (nothing extra loaded, no extra processes spawned).

Indeed. I never claimed it happens on 54. Virtual tabs were added to nightly like 2 weeks ago.

This could just be a bug on nightly that'll disappear tomorrow or in two weeks.

Little chance of that. It's because of a new feature.

Unless you can give detailed steps on how to reproduce or find out if this is due to changes that are going to become permanent in the future, there isn't much to work with here.

I already did, you just skipped that the bug is on nightly.

Yes, as have other authors. Seems hardly worth the time if the whole extension becomes obsolete by the time WebExtensions replaces XPCOM entirely. You're free to buy them a cup of coffee and motivate them to fix bugs. At the very least, if you expect someone to do free work for you, don't imply they're a coward or lazy. The only reason we have Tab Groups in the first place is because he picked up the dead code from Panorama.

I didn't imply anything, that's entirely in you head. I expressed disappointment.
Also, if you remember I asked if there's someone around who can deal with. TG has many users, some of which likely know a thing or two about JS and addons.

[mechalynx]

Indeed. I never claimed it happens on 54. Virtual tabs were added to nightly like 2 weeks ago.
Little chance of that. It's because of a new feature.
I already did, you just skipped that the bug is on nightly.

You only mentioned your version after I asked. You only mentioned what you think it's related to (virtual tabs) after I asked. You still haven't provided steps to reproduce or stated what you've tried:

• Have you tried safe mode?
• Have you tried disabling electrolysis?
• Have you tried having no extension active except Tab Groups?
• Still need your value of browser.sessionstore.restore_on_demand and if the problem occurs with it on or off, with Tab Groups active and inactive.

I didn't imply anything

What I read was:

Quicksaver jumped ship

I guess it's up to each person's individual judgement to discern whether you implied anything with that or not.

[mzso]

@mechalynx
I don't think this conversation is constructive.

Have you tried ...

No. I know the cause.

You only mentioned your version after I asked.

Yeah I forgot about that.

You only mentioned what you think it's related to (virtual tabs) after I asked.

No. That's how I started the issue. But now that you mention it. Here's the bug that pushed it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345090 You can check it out yourself

PS: You also get an error in the console

"[bug 1345098] Lazy browser prematurely inserted via ... when an issue like this happens

You still haven't provided steps to reproduce

Yes I did! Enter groups view on nightly, that it...

[mechalynx]

@mzso

I don't think this conversation is constructive.

On the contrary! Compared to the information your original post provided, we now have a much more complete picture (dare I say, it's only now that we have any picture at all?). Here's the picture:

• Your original title is a copy of the error you get in the console, which you've only partially provided for reasons unknown. The full related output of the console would be a good idea to include since:

  • you already know it's related

  • No. I know the cause.

  • you are clearly capable of copy and paste

  If you had clarified this from the OP, the conversation would have been unnecessary.

• This bug exists only on Nightly 55 and is related to a feature that will only land after XPCOM is removed, hence it makes no sense to do work in fixing this since Tab Groups is expected to stop working after XPCOM is removed anyway. Since you know how to use the bugtracker, you might have followed the clues you've left me:

  • https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=906076
  • https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1333837

  Both those bugs are related to and the first one even mentions "Tab Groups" explicitly as an addon. Seems others beat you to the punch:

  • https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=906076#c251

  Wasn't the tab groups addon mentioned before in regards of prematurely inserting lazy browsers?
  Was it determined if it's an issue on FF's side or the addon's (like with BackTrack Tab History)?

So thus far, it seems work is being done in this direction by people who actually can do something about it and there's nothing to do on Tab Groups besides take note. In fact, I'll be relaying the links to those bugs to the issue that's tracking progress on WebExtensions within this repo.

No. I know the cause.

If you did, you might have actually provided details or made a pull request. Seems like all you had was confidence backed by a single line in the console which you haven't bothered providing.

Yeah I forgot about that.

Yet you seem unapologetic about it. Just a comment ago you were saying you did provide the version. So which is it?

No. That's how I started the issue.

No, that's just one more thing I had to extract from you.

Yes I did! Enter groups view on nightly, that it...

You didn't. You only mentioned what you thought was happening. Re-read the list of what I asked you to try, it's there for a reason. If entering groups view was good enough, then be explicit about when and how the behavior is observed.

[mzso]

@MechaLynx commented on 2017. máj. 2. 22:05 CEST:

If you had clarified this from the OP, the conversation would have been unnecessary.

Good joke... Your stupendous lack of comprehension is the cause for most of the conversation.

Just a comment ago you were saying you did provide the version. So which is it?

I guess your memory doesn't go past the one before the last comment. Figures because kept asking about the version after I told you...

Anyway I'm tired of your trolling.

[B00ze64]

@mechalynx

Good day.

This bug exists only on Nightly 55 and is related to a feature that will only land after XPCOM is removed, hence it makes no sense to do work in fixing this since Tab Groups is expected to stop working after XPCOM is removed anyway.

If you look at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345090 you will see that, if I understand this correctly, Lazy Tabs will land in FF55. The comment you quoted is from bug 906076, which is the parent to bug 1345090 and which probably covers more ground (I'm not reading it, it's too big).

I think you've been way too adversarial. Once @mzso told you he was on FF55 and once he renamed his Github bug to mention Lazy Browsers I understood exactly what he was saying (having just read bug 1345090 helped). If no one fixes this then users of Tab Groups will be best served by staying on FF54 or FF52ESR, rather than move on to FF55 or FF56. PS: Lazy Browsers are also causing problems with the Private Tabs extension.

[mechalynx]

@B00ze64 I didn't read the bugs entirely either, they are indeed too big.

However, after having to work to get the information (only to be told it had been there all along) I see this as being more or less like WebExtensions - in other words, something that's expected to break the extension unless it gets ported to the new tech. My entire point has been that it would have been clear if the information (such as the Firefox version and that this produces a clear console message) had been provided up front, instead of using that part of the OP for a sneer, then resisting to provide it without someone else having to get "adversarial".

I do see some hope in those bugs though, it seems a lot of extensions have been breaking and that has motivated work in the direction of expanding WebExtensions to accommodate them.

[mzso]

@B00ze64 commented on 2017. máj. 4. 03:59 CEST:

Once @mzso told you he was on FF55 and once he renamed his Github bug to mention Lazy Browsers I understood exactly what he was saying (having just read bug 1345090 helped). If no one fixes this then users of Tab Groups will be best served by staying on FF54 or FF52ESR, rather than move on to FF55 or FF56. PS: Lazy Browsers are also causing problems with the Private Tabs extension.

Yeah, that was my intention with the change. But it doesn't help against trolls, and their drive to waste time by being *ssholes.

[B00ze64]

It's too bad no one is working on Tab Groups, Lazy Tabs appear to reduce startup times significantly! I'm personally staying with FF52ESR for a year or two while replacements for my addOns are developed, but I might've picked FF55 or FF56 if Tab Groups was updated.

[mzso]

@B00ze64 commented on 2017. máj. 5. 02:16 CEST:

It's too bad no one is working on Tab Groups, Lazy Tabs appear to reduce startup times significantly! I'm personally staying with FF52ESR for a year or two while replacements for my addOns are developed, but I might've picked FF55 or FF56 if Tab Groups was updated.

Sadly even findbar tweaks interfere with laziness, when closing tabs. I might have abandoned TG more easily. But the findbar I use constantly.

[mausalimi]

why the heck would anyone want to work on something that will be dead in a few months!?

[mzso]

@mausalimi commented on 2017. máj. 12. 18:11 CEST:

why the heck would anyone want to work on something that will be dead in a few months!?

Because someone might be using it. And would like it bug free.
It won't be dead unless you stop using it. No-one forces you to upgrade to FF57. I certainly won't.

[mausalimi]

eh.. you re obviously the one who wants to upgrade. i'm on v52 ESR where tab groups works fine.

sure, a paid programmer wouldn't give a damn if the project dies as long as he gets the money. :)
but someone who does it in his spare time surely won't bother, there's no point anyway, as mentioned people can stick to 52 ESR.

as we see, no one did fork it in the past 3 months.

[mzso]

@mausalimi commented on 2017. máj. 12. 19:51 CEST:

eh.. you re obviously the one who wants to upgrade. i'm on v52 ESR where tab groups works fine.

sure, a paid programmer wouldn't give a damn if the project dies as long as he gets the money. :)

but someone who does it in his spare time surely won't bother, there's no point anyway, as mentioned people can stick to 52 ESR.

as we see, no one did fork it in the past 3 months.

There were improvements since 52. Such as virtual tabs tabs for e10s-multi.

[mausalimi]

i can easily live without all that. i never got it why there are people with hundreds of open tabs, honestly.
not to mention i do restart firefox only about every 5 days, once it starts to eat too much memory.

i don't even use e10s, i couldn't feel a bloody difference, and i do a lot of web surfing. maybe not demanding web sites.
also there are still addons that do not work properly with e10s, although they are marked as compatible.

different people, different needs i guess. :)