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Fix: Match Demo Terrorist suicide flags with flags of other faction Terrorist #316

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merged 1 commit into from
Jul 16, 2022

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Generalcamo
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The Demolition General's Terrorist, with this commit, will now explode when crushed, burned, or exploded like other faction's terrorists. This was a change done previously by 1.06, and their reasoning is quite succinct:
One question: why didn't they explode when driven over? This weakness doesn't make any sense, especially since it's Juhziz's Terrorist, who is supposed to be better.

This is now ported to this patch.

Made Demolition Terrorist's exploding behavior consistent with other terrorists.
@Generalcamo Generalcamo self-assigned this Sep 11, 2021
@Jundiyy
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Jundiyy commented Sep 11, 2021

Hmmm, I don't think having Terrorist acting differently is a problem and secondly they are already very powerful, so being able to deny them is a good thing.
For example, a common tactic to counter a TT is to run them over with a technical.

@Generalcamo Generalcamo added Bug Something is not working right Controversial Is controversial OngoingDiscussion Requires further discussion labels Sep 11, 2021
@Stubbjax
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Stubbjax commented Sep 12, 2021

Hmmm, I don't think having Terrorist acting differently is a problem and secondly they are already very powerful, so being able to deny them is a good thing.
For example, a common tactic to counter a TT is to run them over with a technical.

Why do you believe it is not a problem? Would you intentionally design the game this way? It is a problem, as it's very confusing behaviour for players who are new or not familiar with the game. It does not make any sense for Demolition terrorists to have this arbitrary weakness, given they belong to the Demolition General who is meant to specialise in these units.

If there was any change that would make sense here, it would be that this behaviour was reversed so that only Demolition terrorists exploded when killed via the aforementioned means. But that is not a change I'd be advocating for.

@MTKing4
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MTKing4 commented Sep 12, 2021

Even though it makes sense that way, it'd be too big of a change, we need experts' opinion on this

@xezon
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xezon commented Sep 12, 2021

Personally I would prefer all terrorists behaved the same, either all can be run over or not. It's certainly a very controversial change. It's difficult to run over terrorists successfully, This makes epic moments.

@xezon xezon self-requested a review September 12, 2021 07:12
@commy2
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commy2 commented Sep 12, 2021

To mix things up: Should any of the Terrorist explode when run over?

@Stubbjax
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Even though it makes sense that way, it'd be too big of a change, we need experts' opinion on this

Why do you feel like it'd be too big of a change? It would certainly be more in line with players' expectations.

To mix things up: Should any of the Terrorist explode when run over?

I'd actually vote for no here (no explosion when crushed). The high risk / high reward dynamic that a change like this would bring could be very interesting.

@MTKing4
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MTKing4 commented Sep 12, 2021

Why do you feel like it'd be too big of a change? It would certainly be more in line with players' expectations.

because it's not a broken thing that needs fixing and it will affect balance quite a lot, I kinda like it that demo terrorists have their weakness in the early game as compensation for how strong they become after demo upgrade

i'd go with the same thing i said about toxin terrorists, add this as a description in their tooltip "don't explode when run over"

@Jundiyy
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Jundiyy commented Sep 13, 2021

Hmmm, I don't think having Terrorist acting differently is a problem and secondly they are already very powerful, so being able to deny them is a good thing.
For example, a common tactic to counter a TT is to run them over with a technical.

Why do you believe it is not a problem? Would you intentionally design the game this way? It is a problem, as it's very confusing behaviour for players who are new or not familiar with the game. It does not make any sense for Demolition terrorists to have this arbitrary weakness, given they belong to the Demolition General who is meant to specialise in these units.

If there was any change that would make sense here, it would be that this behaviour was reversed so that only Demolition terrorists exploded when killed via the aforementioned means. But that is not a change I'd be advocating for.

Whilst the last part does make sense

I don't believe the first part would be confusing. Wouldn't you say Demo and Tox doing 700 damage instead of 500 is more confusing? But the fact that Demo has a sign (red explosion) and Tox has a sign (Anthrax) is more than enough to let players know they are different to regular Terrorists and will/may do something different.

@Madrageeeeee
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It is one of the things that makes demo slightly worse at gettign a successful TT in gla mirrors. But you do get better terrorists so balances out i guess.

i wouldnt change this, interesting dynamic and makes for a nice little micro trick

also remember it can have benefits, as rpg + terrorist techs can explode if you run the terorists over for demo this doesnt happen.

Although this is perhaps a different thing, that demo terrorists dont do damage to their own units.

All in all i wouldnt really change this i think.

@commy2
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commy2 commented Sep 24, 2021

Although this is perhaps a different thing, that demo terrorists dont do damage to their own units.

This is correct. Even if the Demo Terrorist would explode when run over, it would not hurt allies, because Demo.

@xezon
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xezon commented Jul 16, 2022

Fixes #502
Fixes #503

@xezon xezon merged commit 5c7d0d3 into TheSuperHackers:main Jul 16, 2022
@xezon xezon removed the OngoingDiscussion Requires further discussion label Aug 22, 2022
xezon pushed a commit that referenced this pull request Aug 28, 2022
Makes Demo Terrorist exploding behavior consistent with other terrorists. Explodes on crushing. Explodes on walking over mines.
@xezon xezon added Major Severity: Minor < Major < Critical < Blocker GLA Affects GLA faction labels Mar 18, 2023
@xezon xezon changed the title Changed Demo Terrorist suicide flags to match other faction's terrorists. Fix: Match Demo Terrorist suicide flags with flags of other faction Terrorist Mar 19, 2023
xezon added a commit that referenced this pull request Mar 26, 2023
xezon added a commit that referenced this pull request Apr 1, 2023
@xezon xezon added the GameMismatchWith104 Affects game state towards original 1.04 label Mar 3, 2025
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7 participants