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[WIP][ENH] improve guidelines #28
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@@ -40,74 +40,85 @@ If something being added to BIDS is applicable to at least 80% of use cases | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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## When and how to start a BIDS Extension Proposal? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Small contributions (typos, rephrasing of a description, adding a single new | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
metadata field) can be just added as a | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[Pull Request on GitHub](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-specification/pulls) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Larger contributions that are expected to involve longer and more involved | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
discussions should be first described in a standalone document: a Google Docs | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
BEP. Development on Google Docs is preferred as this is a low barrier to entry | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
for colleagues who do not use GitHub and/or Markdown, | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
allowing more people to get involved. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1. Explore [the specification](bids-specification.readthedocs.io) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
and [the BEP lists](https://bids.neuroimaging.io/get_involved.html#extending-the-bids-specification) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
to find existing or ongoing efforts | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
that may support what you are trying to add into the BIDS Specification. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Someone may have already done work for you. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
!!! warning "Does this change need to be a BEP?" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Small contributions | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(typos, rephrasing of a description, adding a single new metadata field) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
can be just added to the BIDS specification | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
as a [Pull Request on GitHub](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-specification/pulls) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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2. Read the | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[BIDS governance document](https://bids.neuroimaging.io/governance.html). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Larger contributions that are expected to involve longer and more involved discussions | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
should be first described in a standalone document: a Google Docs BEP. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Development on Google Docs is preferred as this is a low barrier to entry | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
for colleagues who do not use GitHub and/or Markdown, | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
allowing more people to get involved. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1. Check [the lists of opened BEPs](https://bids.neuroimaging.io/get_involved.html#extending-the-bids-specification) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
to find existing or ongoing efforts that may overlap with your idea. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Someone may have already done work for you. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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3. Familiarize yourself with the BIDS community by browsing current issues, | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
discussions, and proposed changes on | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[the BIDS specification repository]. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1. Check the [opened issues about BEPs](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-specification/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3ABEP), | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Search for issues relating to your feature or BEP idea | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
before creating a new issue. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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4. Open an initial “issue” on | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[the BIDS specification repository] issues page | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1. Open an initial “issue” on | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
the BIDS specification repository [issues page] | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
to gauge interest in your potential BEP, and to collect | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
feedback by more community members and | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[BIDS maintainers](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-specification/blob/master/DECISION-MAKING.md#maintainers-group). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
**This is an important step before proceeding in order to make sure that | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
more consensus arises and more contributors are aware what is happening**. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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!!! warning | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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5. Communicate with the BIDS maintainers to make your BEP official. This | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
entails registering the BEP with a number on | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This is an important step before proceeding in order to make sure that | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
more consensus arises and more contributors are aware what is happening. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1. Communicate with the BIDS maintainers to make your BEP official. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This entails registering the BEP with a number on | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[the BIDS website](https://bids.neuroimaging.io/get_involved.html). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
To obtain a number for your BEP, follow the previous steps and then [open a | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
new issue](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-website/issues) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
or [submit a pull request](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-website/pulls) to the | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[website GitHub repository](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-website/), | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
cross-linking to any other already existing issues. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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6. Create a draft of your extension by discussing among colleagues. The | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[BIDS Extension Proposal template](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W7--Mf3gCCb1mVfhsoRJCAKFhmf2umG1PFkyZ1jEgMw/edit#) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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<!-- 1. Read the [BIDS governance document](https://bids.neuroimaging.io/governance.html). --> | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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## Developping the BIDS extension proposal | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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1. Make sure you are familiar with [the BIDS specification](https://bids-specification.readthedocs.io/en/latest/) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
and the [bids-examples](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-examples). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. NOTE: landing page of mkdocs version of the example is confusing as it talks about a repo.
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. IMHO, someone who gets to this point without already being very familiar with BIDS is starting from a bad place. Familiarizing with BIDS should be mentioned before even opening an issue to gauge the interest. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. @oesteban - I agree with your point and I think this line was moved down but we had not decided where it should be moved exactly yet. Though to give a bit more context, I believe that the rationale here was to try and reduce the burden for new contributors who are not yet fully familiar with BIDS but who would like to contribute. Requesting as one of the first steps to be familiar with the whole of the BIDS spec and with the BIDS examples seems (to me at least) a bit too high and may be intimidating. I see value in proposing pathways where people can more easily post an issue to inquire about a BEP they would like to start. This means we can have an open discussion earlier rather than later. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Thanks @cmaumet for writing what was in my head. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.
For much I agree with this, its implementation places a large burden on the BIDS maintainers who (implicitly, and this should be explicit in the bylaws) end up being those facilitating actors who get BEPs to move forward. The same way we need to go through training before scanning people or animals, proposing a BEPs seems to me that it requires a deep understanding of BIDS. People who are not deeply familiar but still have energy and time to contribute can definitely deliver relevant improvements by proposing new examples and contributing to the starter kit and other documents where the entry barriers are lower. The problem with the spec is that it is a binding document (and with the backward compatibility principle, mistakes are costly). Entering a BEP without the sufficient familiarity with BIDS is a recipe to waste everyone's time (starting with the BEP leads themselves, which goes against their motivation to contribute in first place) at best, and have longstanding consequences at worst. One problem (and I'm going a bit off-topic) is that BEPs are only submitted to review when they are "almost finished". I think the process of starting a BEP should be revised and perhaps follow an approach like bids-standard/bids-specification#1602, where a 1-page document stating problems, solutions tried, etc. is first to be voted. Only then the BEP moves forward if that vision gathers sufficient support from the community. To properly write such a "BEP-in-brief" document, the future leads will need a deep understanding of BIDS. If that is not the case, the BIDS SC will identify issues in the proposal and request changes before things move forward. IMHO, BEPs are not suffering from lack of initiative or motivation, but rather, lack of a clear vision (the path is found by creating many examples and convincing others, instead of following a clear target) and procedural (or lack of clarity thereof) issues. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Hi @oesteban! Thanks for sharing this and I can see that @sappelhoff agrees 👍 I fear that if we require new BEP leads to know all of BIDS we will end up with a smaller and smaller set of people who will be able to contribute to BIDS in the future. We will also possibly miss contributions from domain experts (who are not necessarily BIDS experts but know the target domain well). But I think we can probably agree on a way forward :) I concur that the role of the maintainers here should be made explicit and this must be done in agreement with the maintainers. Similarly, I think steering has a role to play. I do like your proposal of a one page submission and of clarifying the process of how we gauge interest from the community (not sure if a vote is best but agree we should be explicit) before BEP leads get a BEP number and go on with developing a full BEP. This would also help making it more concrete what is meant by "Make sure you are familiar with the BIDS specification and the bids-examples." (i.e. different people may have very different interpretation of what this entails). There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more.
IMHO, you shouldn't fear this for two reasons: First is that initiating a BEP with a vision that is not aligned with BIDS is bound to fail. Often, BEPs get stuck for this, and this effectively reduces the number of people who will be able to contribute. This problem is already here, and this solution could prevent it from happening so unfortunately often. The second reason is that it is not the same to contribute than it is to propose a BEP. If the BEP has solid foundations and the BEP leaders understand the BIDS' vision (this means not just the specs but also how things work and how to engage people), then the potential number of contributors only grow. This is because BEP leads must engage experts and other views who may not be familiar with BIDS directly, but can share their expertise. This understanding opposes the suggestion that BIDS can expect a domain expert to come and lead a BEP on top of their already overloaded duties, which I feel is unrealistic. I believe the role of the BEP lead and BEP contributor should be addressed differently. In other words, we really need to decouple what is BIDS-dependent and what is domain-dependant. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Without any strong guidelines, perhaps something like the following? This is similar as noted for Python setting expectations 'To support relatively new BIDS contributors, it is strongly recommended that BEP leads who are relatively new to BIDS seek a current BIDS contributor as a co-BEP lead. Please be mindful of the burden on BIDS maintainers and consider that burn-out is common in open source due to a misunderstanding of what users, contributors, and maintainers expect from each other.' There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Thanks for the specific suggestion @dorahermes. I think it captures the idea well. The intention I tried to shape is not deterring experts without BIDS experience in leading BEPs. It is rather that we should avoid letting a BEP start if its lead does not have someone with a "BIDS compass". Without such a role, the effort is bound to fail and dissolve. On the contrary, if a BEP has a strongly opinionated (even biased) compass, then the BEP review process should identify and correct for the problems resulting from those biases. Without a compass, this checkpoint is hard to even reach. |
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1. Create a draft of your extension by discussing among colleagues | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
along with minimal dataset examples. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The [BIDS Extension Proposal template](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W7--Mf3gCCb1mVfhsoRJCAKFhmf2umG1PFkyZ1jEgMw/edit#) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
provides some boilerplate and formatting conventions. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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7. List on the draft the contributor(s) leading the effort. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
!!! Note | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Designing aexamples early in the BEP process can help make things more concrete | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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and make it more obvious what aspects of the BEP work and what aspect may need to be reworked. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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8. Share the draft (remember to | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1. Share the draft (remember to | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Is this supposed to be a google draft or to refer to the pull request? |
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[share a link that allows anyone to comment](https://support.google.com/docs/answer/2494822?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en)) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
with the | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[bids-discussion mailing list](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/bids-discussion) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
and ask for comments. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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9. Incorporate the feedback and strive for consensus. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1. Incorporate the feedback and strive for consensus. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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10. Help to merge the extension into the main specification (this will require | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1. Help to merge the extension into the main specification (this will require | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. When are people supposed to move from google doc to start using markdown / github to open a pull request ? There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Should they submit only markdown? There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. I would argue that
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Given that the governance mentions a google doc step, I think it is hard for now to say that people can skip this. https://bids.neuroimaging.io/governance.html#b-standard-decision-making-process-overview Starting to think we may have to amend the governance too on the next election to clarify our process. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. I totally agree with @Remi-Gau's initial question. In a private conversation that ended up in #29, I had mentioned this problem and suggested two scenarios:
Here, it would also clearly state how the migration from GDocs to GH should happen:
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. re @Remi-Gau 's last comment on inter-dependency with governance principles:
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converting the proposal to Markdown and submitting a Pull Request at | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
[the BIDS specification repository]) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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11. Create example datasets. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Give more specific info on opening PR on the bids examples. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. I am not sure why this change. We do talk about PR against bids-specification above, so why not to talk about examples? hence I would have returned back (can't add suggestion on deleted line) 1. Create a Pull Request with example dataset(s) for [bids-examples] repository.
Those examples should pass BIDS Validator when using modified BIDS Specification schema provided in the aforementioned Pull Request for [the BIDS specification repository]. |
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Given that now all validation rules should be encoded in the schema, I am not sure even if this rule remains pertinent. I would make it a little clear(er) that most likely this is not needed
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Perhaps this should say how (and/or who) the need for changes in the validator is determined, as opposed to grading the rarity of the event. There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. could you suggest wording to express your idea? There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. done above (I think GH will not reorganize the timeline of my review) or below (if the review order is changed) |
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[BIDS Validator repository](https://github.com/bids-standard/bids-validator) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
as well to incorporate the extension. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. @yarikoptic something along these lines (will probably require making consistent with the above line about examples):
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Thanks for taking a stab at it! "explicit better than implicit" so overall I like the "spirit" of presentation here but IMHO it is too verbose here.
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. Heads up - this sentence seems cut off. I would suggest a change, but I don't really know what this is meaning to say:
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There was a problem hiding this comment. Choose a reason for hiding this commentThe reason will be displayed to describe this comment to others. Learn more. unnecessary, not pertinent changes
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From discussion with Camille:
It is unclear what is in the internal process or criteria that says that a BEP can get a number.
from the POV of the contributor what would make them going from opening an issue to asking for an official number.
ACTION: maintainers and steering to clarify this
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We never formalized this, but from my perspective, BEP leads need to:
Once these three steps are fulfilled, I'd be happy to give the BEP a number and ask the leads to please announce the initiative far and wide.
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Thanks @sappelhoff for fleshing this out! I do think this is important and we should get consensus (at minima amongst maintainers + steering?) and make those explicit. Maybe a point to discuss at the next steering/maintainer meetings?
One question for me here is step 2 "wait until such feedback comes" --> should we commit that someone on BIDS governance (a maintainer / a steering member / someone else) will give feedback? i.e. what happens if no feedback comes?
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there have been situations in the past where not a lot of feedback came. I think one example is the suggested BEP that came our of the earlier "cancelled" MIDS BEP:
there is just not a lot happening there and I could understand if the current lead of that "pre-BEP" would be kind of frustrated.
I don't really have a solution for it. Sometimes people also suggest ideas that don't really resonate with anyone, and then, no interaction may also be an answer in itself? But we should figure out more respectful ways of dealing with this.
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I agree this needs to be dealt with, but I would not frame it in terms of what is respectful or not, but rather what ensures that the work done is retrievable if interest returns and is formalized in a way that we retain what was learned (e.g., after all the work we realized it was not the best way of solving something).
I think having zombie BEPs is the worst (least respectful) option. As long as the BEP lifecycle is clear, if a BEP needs to be called "cancelled", I think that's okay (preserving it FAIR and provenance traced).
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There are two topics in this thread, on 1) perhaps a this can be something like:
(a) We have something similar already, see here.
(b) This seems to be a niche case, are you sure that enough people care?
(c) Wonderful, we've been needing this!
(d) I do not have sufficient experience/time to comment on this topic now (perhaps tag someone else instead)
on 2) I would prefer 'shelving' rather than 'cancelling' zombie BEPs. This makes it clear that if community interest resurfaces or new leads emerge, they can be taken of the shelve.