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Scaling basic resin construction cost #7882

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merged 7 commits into from
Jan 2, 2025

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Drulikar
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@Drulikar Drulikar commented Dec 22, 2024

About the pull request

This PR is aimed at discouraging basic resin constructions (walls/membranes/doors) in areas that are already saturated with resin constructions. I am not certain yet if 40% saturation is the right amount to start scaling (as in I generally don't want it to really ever come in to play for most rounds), and if plasma cost is harsh enough when its active. The plasma cost will always be under plasma_max if there even is enough plasma_max needed to do the construction normally.

Current values:
image

I also made the admin niche message for enclosed dead bodies more relevant.

Explain why it's good for the game

Should mitigate, but not make impossible, saturating areas heavily with basic resin constructions. I personally think marines have enough tools to quickly enough deal with this occurring even in caves, but I guess I'm in the minority.

Testing Photographs and Procedure

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Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the <details> tags.

Changelog

🆑 Drathek
balance: Added scaling to the plasma cost of basic resin constructions when an area is at least 40% saturated.
admin: Niche messaging for sealing off dead bodies now only applies to revivable bodies
refactor: Refactored some resin construction code
/:cl:

@cmss13-ci cmss13-ci bot added Balance You need to be a professional veteran game maintainer to comprehend what is being done here. Admin Make things harder for admins Refactor Make the code harder to read labels Dec 22, 2024
@HeresKozmos
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For clearing structures you already get:

  • Boot knives, machetes, most melee weapons
  • Grenades of various types/kinds
  • Mortar shells, all but camera shells
  • CAS, several different configurations (some incredibly powerful at area clearing*)
  • Actual bullets, you can shoot them if you really need to
  • Breaching shotgun, annihilates most resin constructs AND normal or reinforced walls
  • C4, carried by most technicians
  • Breaching Hammers, carried by Synthetics

This is an absolutely pointless PR designed to make builders even more unfun to play.

@Drulikar
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For clearing structures you already get:

  • Boot knives, machetes, most melee weapons
  • Grenades of various types/kinds
  • Mortar shells, all but camera shells
  • CAS, several different configurations (some incredibly powerful at area clearing*)
  • Actual bullets, you can shoot them if you really need to
  • Breaching shotgun, annihilates most resin constructs AND normal or reinforced walls
  • C4, carried by most technicians
  • Breaching Hammers, carried by Synthetics

This is an absolutely pointless PR designed to make builders even more unfun to play.

I am aware, but you aren't aware how much it takes to get to 30% saturation in an area.

@TheManWithNoHands
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TheManWithNoHands commented Dec 22, 2024

I am aware, but you aren't aware how much it takes to get to 30% saturation in an area.

Bro, tell then how much is needed to get 30%. That is important info to get perspective on this.
The Graph is neat, but you dont really show what the numbers on the blue and orange line mean. I assume its ammount of buildings?

@Drulikar
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Drulikar commented Dec 22, 2024

I am aware, but you aren't aware how much it takes to get to 30% saturation in an area.

Bro, tell then how much is needed to get 30%. That is important info to get perspective on this.

In my description it says:

(as in I generally don't want it to really ever come in to play for most rounds)

Its basic resin constructions to turfs that can be opened. The code is in the Files Changed tab. Western caves for example calculates out to have 2015 openable turfs and in distress signal starts at 292. 2105 * 0.3 is 631.5. So you need multiple screen worth of walls/doors/resin to even start getting a higher cost.

It could affect small areas more than I want so maybe I need to ignore areas that have say under 500 openable turfs or have more of a sliding scale depending on the cap, but the goal of this is to not really ever feel this effect unless someone is really saturating walls/membranes/doors somewhere.

Visually, even for a smaller area (medbay) the openable turf count is every tile, so 176. So that means 52.8 turfs would have to be filled with resin walls to even start feeling an increase in cost.
image
image

@Diegoflores31
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this makes lessers unable to build at some point is that intended ???

@Drulikar
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Drulikar commented Dec 22, 2024

this makes lessers unable to build at some point is that intended ???

False, its capped to plasma_max

@Drulikar Drulikar added Testmerge Candidate we'll test this while you're asleep and the server has 10 players Needs Testing Need to test it on the guinea pigs (production server) labels Dec 22, 2024
@Red-byte3D
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Red-byte3D commented Dec 22, 2024

How is this going to affect maps that are already tight enough as it is? LV 624 is a bad example because theres multiple LONG HALLWAYS of entry points through the cave systems, esentially meaning it all crashes into one place anyway so majority of the defenses will be around the cave area you've hived in, but for example on a map like trijent dam you have to build up the west podlock, south podlock, science, and the east of the podlock area, which are all basically a total of 2-3 screens.

It's alot of places to build in a small radius, not considering the fact that none of those said areas are un-cassable so re-building after a cas strike would probably cost a lot of plasma.
Maybe the scaling should work differently if the area its in is open to cas or mortar?

Not to mention most probably that comm holds are going to be even harder to hold due to the density you have to build them in so maybe an extra grace period on comms tiles before the cost actually even begins to increase? Though i dont know how "big" the area around most comms are, 624 engineering, kutjevo southern and northern coms are probably going to be problematic.

All just worries i have, but balance wise i think people already dont have alot of reasons to play builders as menitoned above with how easy people can clear walls, meaning most of them dont even amount to much. I think before a pr like this is viable we need to consider either increasing the structure health, or just nerfing the efficiency & availability of the tools they have to deal with said constructions.

And i think most importantly some people just enjoy building their own little areas, this is just going to make it much more annoying to build said projects because now they have to waste entire plasma pools on way less walls taking way more time meaning even less people will play builders.

I feel like this might turn the balance around hive sieges on its head as well because usually hives are tightly built, so when somebody destroys a few walls south is it going to take an entire plasma pools worth to replace one wall?

@Comxy
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Comxy commented Dec 22, 2024

I am thinking increasing the damage multiplier on melee weapons for example 25% saturation might be a better solution. It seems more player friendly for building castes and then you can also lower the initial threshold to make clearing cluttered structures less time consuming.

@Drulikar
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I really can't get it into commentors heads how much it takes to even reach this threshold. So I'm sorry. I can only reiterate this is intended to never be felt in a regular round. If it can be it will be adjusted.

@PhantornRU
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But logically it's the other way around... If there's a lot of resin nearby, it should be easier for you to build more. But here it's the other way around. Something "incomprehensible" based on something incomprehensible starts to interfere with building.

I'd better make another restriction if you really want it. The more plasma - the faster the building is built. The less - the slower. If you really want restrictions on construction...

@Drulikar
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But logically it's the other way around... If there's a lot of resin nearby, it should be easier for you to build more. But here it's the other way around. Something "incomprehensible" based on something incomprehensible starts to interfere with building.

I'd better make another restriction if you really want it. The more plasma - the faster the building is built. The less - the slower. If you really want restrictions on construction...

This suggestion goes completely against the point of this PR.

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Drulikar and others added 2 commits December 31, 2024 20:45
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@hry-gh hry-gh added the Balance Approved This PR has had its balance and gameplay-affecting aspects approved. Cry to the Head-maint about it. label Jan 2, 2025
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@Drulikar Drulikar deleted the scaling_basic_construction_cost branch January 2, 2025 19:57
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Admin Make things harder for admins Balance Approved This PR has had its balance and gameplay-affecting aspects approved. Cry to the Head-maint about it. Balance You need to be a professional veteran game maintainer to comprehend what is being done here. Needs Testing Need to test it on the guinea pigs (production server) Refactor Make the code harder to read Testmerge Candidate we'll test this while you're asleep and the server has 10 players
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