discussion: what sort of minimum versions we need to support?

[aladdin-add]

refs:eslint/eslint#11398 (comment)
a bit related to #537

[j-f1]

@jamiebuilds’s suggestion of >0.25%, not ie 11, not op_mini all is one option.

[g-plane]

We can consider creating a "modern build" like vue-cli does.

[aladdin-add]

@jamiebuilds’s suggestion of >0.25%, not ie 11, not op_mini all is one option.

at the very least, we still need to support IE11, for windows 7 users -- Edge requires windows 10. But I'd like to see someone share the GA data.

• https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/11531/internet-explorer-system-requirements
• https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=48126

[g-plane]

However, the ESLint website itself doesn't use Babel currently. That means, we may not need to change the JS about the website. (It's still supporting old browsers.)

[ilyavolodin]

Here's top 40 browser stats for one week (Feb 12 - 18):

Sessions	Browser Major Version	Percentage
40645	72 Chrome	0.447563151
29380	71 Chrome	0.3235184
4492	65 Firefox	0.049463739
3801	12 Safari	0.04185478
2352	70 Chrome	0.02589909
1063	69 Chrome	0.011705244
627	68 Chrome	0.006904222
591	63 Chrome	0.006507807
550	67 Chrome	0.006056335
529	74 Chrome	0.005825093
522	17 Edge	0.005748012
520	73 Chrome	0.005725989
502	66 Firefox	0.005527782
491	11 Internet Explorer	0.005406655
418	58 Opera	0.004602815
381	64 Firefox	0.004195388
297	57 Opera	0.003270421
285	11 Safari	0.003138283
268	60 Firefox	0.002951087
260	65 Chrome	0.002862995
253	66 Chrome	0.002785914
248	18 Edge	0.002730856
202	64 Chrome	0.002224327
181	19 YaBrowser	0.001993085
142	18 YaBrowser	0.001563636
111	16 Edge	0.001222279
105	62 Chrome	0.001156209
92	61 Chrome	0.00101306
88	63 Firefox	0.000969014
84	58 Chrome	0.000924968
76	5 Samsung Internet	0.000836875
75	52 Firefox	0.000825864
66	57 Chrome	0.00072676
62	55 Chrome	0.000682714
60	67 Firefox	0.000660691
57	61 Firefox	0.000627657
56	(not Safari (in-app)	0.000616645
55	60 Chrome	0.000605633
45	56 Chrome	0.000495518
39	36 Chrome	0.000429449

P.S. I wish Google Analytics would finally add ability to get browsers by major version... This jumping through Excel hoops thing takes waaay too long.

[aladdin-add]

I think we can drop IE <= 10, but do we want to support IE 11 (given its ~0.54% share)?

[g-plane]

Can we create two builds? One is for old browsers and another is for evergreen browsers.

[ilyavolodin]

What would be the point of creating two builds? I'm fine with dropping IE10. But I would keep IE11, as it's not upgradable.

[g-plane]

For those who use evergreen browsers, they can leverage the optimization of the new browsers and fetch smaller bundle size (less Babel transpilation).

[aladdin-add]

I'm not a big fan of this -- as Chrome takes the largest body, it seems not worthy the complexity IMHO.

[aladdin-add]

seems we got a problem on IE11. see eslint/eslint#11504 (comment)

I'm afraid we have to drop support it. thoughts?

[kaicataldo]

For those who use evergreen browsers, they can leverage the optimization of the new browsers and fetch smaller bundle size (less Babel transpilation).

I'm a bit confused by this, because as far as I know we're not actually transpiling anything. Is the purpose of this discussion to decide on a policy so that going forward we can potentially start using features from ES2015 and beyond?

Some relevant discussion regarding adding a build step: #536

[aladdin-add]

I'm a bit confused by this, because as far as I know we're not actually transpiling anything.

I think @g-plane means eslint.js/espree.js in the demo page -- they were built in eslint repo.

[kaicataldo]

It would be nice to have some data - who here has access to the Google Analytics account?

[ilyavolodin]

I have access to google analytics. But creating those reports based on browser version is a major pain, since GA doesn't support it naively, and you have to do a huge number of transformations in Excel. What information are you looking for, specifically?

[kaicataldo]

I was wondering if it would be useful to get a breakdown of what percentage of visits are from various browsers so that we can let that inform our decision here.

[ilyavolodin]

You mean by browser or by browser version (like the table above)? By browser, it's easy, GA has a report that I can generate without any problem. By browser version takes a lot of work, since GA doesn't support that type of report naively and you have to correlate multiple reports by hands in Excel.

[kaicataldo]

@ilyavolodin Maybe we could start with the breakdown of browsers? i.e. if we see that IE is <2% of traffic maybe we can drop support. I think the tricky one here is Safari, since it doesn't automatically update and is tied to macOS versions.

[aladdin-add]

IE 11 is ~0.54%, and I didn't see IE<11 in top40. see #543 (comment)

should this be discussed in a TSC meeting?

[g-plane]

Demo can't be run on IE now: eslint/eslint#11504 .

[kaicataldo]

Oh, really sorry @ilyavolodin, I don’t know how I missed the breakdown above.

[ilyavolodin]

Well, that breakdown is pretty old. But it took me over an hour and a half to build it, that's why I'm hesitant to commit to redoing it again:-) But here's breakdown for top 10 browsers (not versions) for the last month:

#	Browser	Users (percentage)
1.	Chrome	199,277(84.98%)
2.	Firefox	15,275(6.51%)
3.	Safari	10,228(4.36%)
4.	Internet Explorer	3,636(1.55%)
5.	Edge	2,676(1.14%)
6.	Opera	1,876(0.80%)
7.	YaBrowser	606(0.26%)
8.	Samsung Internet	316(0.13%)
9.	Android Webview	195(0.08%)
10.	Safari (in-app)	136(0.06%)

Specifically, IE11 is the highest used Microsoft browser on our site with 1,824(0.72%).
Safari is:
12.1.1 - 6,981(2.75%)
12.1 - 1,254(0.49%)
12.0.3 - 451(0.18%)
12.0 - 365(0.14%)
13.0 - 258(0.10%)

[aladdin-add]

just added it to tsc agenda.

please note: demo can't be run on IE now (as @g-plane mentioned), and seems there is no easy ways to fix it.

[kaicataldo]

This was discussed at this week's TSC meeting. The TSC resolved that the website will support IE 11, but that we won't support IE 11 in the demo due to it being such a small percentage of visits and doesn't seem like a trivial amount of work.

[aladdin-add]

Closing due to age.