[Currency Exchange]: Reworded task explanations #2626
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I added some additional explanation to steps 1-5, just a few hints to point the user in the right direction of what operation to use. I still don't fully understand 5 and six so they need some more work in my opinion.
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#2621 Related to this issue |
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Hey @BrooksAz, Thank you! ❤️ |
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@J08K , thank you for the update, I'm happy to have been able to help bring the issue to attention however it is addressed! |
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If the rest of the community agrees that this exercise needs a complete re-work, would you like to work on it and give it your own whirl? This would mean starting from scratch and probably choosing a different topic as well. I'll obviously help you along the way if and when needed for any questions. |
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I'd love to look into it! |
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@J08K @BrooksAz -- One thing to think on as we edge toward re-working this further. The original design spec, which was not copied into the design doc (we need to do that!!). We originally had complex numbers in this mix, because they are a basic numeric type supported by Python. The original authors of this exercise did not find a way to incorporate them. It would be great if a re-write could -- without too much of a stretch. Additionally, we may or may not want to relent and use a few things from |
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@BethanyG Personally I don't think we should bring such a relatively high level math concept into the same level as basic adding and subtracting, that seems like it would be even more confusing. |
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@BrooksAz -- agree we shouldn't be doing polar coordinates or complicated transforms. But basic math works (with caveat) on complex numbers. And they are a basic numeric type. So we should be including them here, or in a follow-on exercise. |
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I agree with a follow on exercise, maybe a little algebra homework type exercise?
… On Oct 4, 2021, at 6:01 PM, BethanyG ***@***.***> wrote:
@BrooksAz -- agree we shouldn't be doing polar coordinates or complicated transforms. But basic math works (with caveat) on complex numbers. And they are a basic numeric type. So we should be including them here, or in a follow-on exercise.
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Well, I think that not many people get excited about algebraic homework... So we do have to choose a subject that intrigues people in a way. |
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True true, imaginary numbers are just a little abstract for me to think of a basic enough practical exercise without getting into a large amount of background for those without the prior knowledge. |
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Just putting this Python docs link on numeric types in for reference. The table shows what is allowed and not for different numeric types. It also talks about how complex numbers are represented (both parts are My contention is that we need not (at this time) go any further than that. This is intended as an exercise on what the Maybe (if it supports an exercise story) we talk about how Most of this for the student should be about following the examples, and having enough story to engage (without too much confusion) enough to focus on learning the Python literals, syntax and code. We don't want to mis-represent a "real world" problem -- but we also don't want these exercises to become lessons on how to do currency exchange or (to use another exercise) how to write a control system for a nuclear reactor. So somewhere between "dirll-and-kill" and write a whole program. Which can be tough (as you've seen), but not impossible. My original thinking on this was a sort of But first, we need to get |
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Yes yes, you're right I see what you mean, sorry for going on a tangent I got a bit carried away!
… On Oct 5, 2021, at 12:01 PM, BethanyG ***@***.***> wrote:
Just putting this Python docs link on numeric types in for reference. The table shows what is allowed and not for different numeric types. It also talks about how complex numbers are represented (both parts are floats). For me, the big takeaway is that (more or less) what works for ints & floats also works for these "things" called complex numbers. Heres also a brief rundown from Tutorials Point that is (less good) but does something similar -- with "just the facts" of what you can & cannot "do".
My contentions is that we need not (at this time) go any further than that. This is intended as an exercise on what the built-in numeric types are, and what baseline things are possible to do with them. As a concept exercise, this is meant to focus on the concept of numbers and basic numeric operations -- not on figuring out a novel algorithm or math equation....or in the case of the exercise as it now stands, the ins and outs of currency exchange.
Maybe (if it supports an exercise story) we talk about how complex numbers are used in electrical circuits (without a huge amount of detail, and with clear examples of usage) or to describe translation or rotation of images (again, without too much digression into complex number space, and with clear examples of usage).
Most of this for the student should be about following the examples, and having enough story to engage (without too much confusion) enough to focus on learning the Python literals, syntax and code. We don't want to mis-represent a "real world" problem -- but we also don't want these exercises to become lessons on how to do currency exchange or (to use another exercise) how to write a control system for a nuclear reactor. So somewhere between "dirll-and-kill" and write a whole program. Which can be tough (as you've seen), but not impossible.
My original thinking on this was a sort of numbers branch or series in the syllabus tree. First, the core built-in types (int, float, complex). Then the types that are about re-representing ints (binary, octal, hexadecimal), and then the ones about re-representing floats (decimal, fraction). Finally, we might dig into the math() module, or go for some more direct applications (like polar coordinates or heavy image manipulation).
But first, we need to get numbers sorted. 😄
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@BrooksAz -- No apologies necessary! Its a discussion. 😄 Its just hard (for me) to covey what a concept exercise is, as opposed to the practice exercises, which are much more open-ended. |
BethanyG
changed the title
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Ive managed to fix the issues with the discrepancies between the test.py and the main application, but it always fails on the final test. Even with comments.. Ive tried to have a look at the test.py to see if i can make any sense out of it, and get it to run, but i don't understand it. Was going to make a pull request to fix the function name discrepancies, but after reading this thread, i won't bother. |
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Hi @BeerHuntor, Sorry to hear you are having issues with this exercise. Maybe if you file an issue with what you have tried, one of us can help you with it? Without seeing where you are stuck, we can't fix the problem. Commenting in the PR without detail isn't terribly helpful.
I am not sure what discrepancies you are referring to, but I'd be happy to explain the tests to you if you'd like to open and issue and show me what you tried, and what errors you are getting. Thanks! |
The function names were different from the test than the main.. I believe the one in question was the elapsed_time_in_minutes() function, it was missing the 'in' from the function name, so was throwing test errors, not sure if it was something I did or if it pulled in an incorrect file, And I've managed to fix the test, I assumed it was looking for comments, not a code block.. so that's why it was throwing me failures. |
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@BeerHuntor -- This is a PR. Please open an issue if you would like to discuss/get help with a problem. The function name you are referring to belongs to a different exercise, called Guido's Gorgeous Lasagna, a not this exercise, which is called Currency Exchange. And, AFIK the issue you mention has been fixed in PR 2651. |
Apologies, I could of sworn I was on the correct exercise. |
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@J08K -- I gave this one more look, and made some additional changes. Given the delay in us re-writing this exercise, I figured we could go ahead and do some re-phrasing for clarity. Can you take a last look and approve or close? Thanks so much! |
Co-authored-by: Job van der Wal <48634934+J08K@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Job van der Wal <48634934+J08K@users.noreply.github.com>
I added some additional explanation to steps 1-6, just a few hints to point the user in the right direction of what operation to use. I managed to figure out steps 5 and 6 and I think the new instructions make it more clear on what to do. I also believe this wording is less overwhelming, breaking things into smaller parts.