Change rendering for natural=spring

[matkoniecz]

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=49.75063&mlon=19.79288#map=19/49.75063/19.79288

1. It looks like 5, not like S
2. I am unsure whatever S = Spring is obvious even for native speakers

I suggest some more obvious icon - maybe something like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RiverIcon-Spring.svg ?

Also orienteering maps have a good symbol for springs:

from http://www.maprunner.co.uk/simon/mapsymbols.jpg

[javbw]

That orienteering icon looks good. is there any documentation for what -carto needs for icons?

[matkoniecz]

According to #326 display of icon for node is completely independent from data about way where it belongs, so orienteering type icon that depends on where waterway goes may be impossible to implement.

[gravitystorm]

As a first stage it could be improved by just being a filled markersymbolizer.

The problem with rotating icons is coming up with a sufficiently complex SQL statement. It's possible to do this though.

[javbw]

If we have an omni-directional icon, or one always displayed vertically, we can still make one without using a letter. The USGS topo map symbols http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/usgs_ref/usgs5.jpg use a little round circle to indicate well, and and round circle with a tail to represent spring.

If we use a little fountain symbol (blue, water squirting up) to denote a spring, the stream way (if there is one) would take care of the directional part of it all .

Maybe something like this.

[javbw]

here is the old spring S with slightly rounded corners to look more like an S

[mrwojo]

This is a prototype for a directional query:

(select distinct on (p.way) p.*, degrees(ST_Azimuth(p.way, ST_PointN(l.way, 2))) as azimuth_degrees
    from planet_osm_point p
    join planet_osm_line l
    on ST_DWithin(p.way,l.way,0.1)
    where p."natural"='spring' and l.waterway='stream') as natural_spring

I'd go with an icon that doesn't need to be directional, because the above query is overkill with the waterway already providing a visible direction. I noticed that JOSM uses one icon for both springs and fountains.

[matthijsmelissen]

Example icon: http://osm-icons.org/images/c/c9/24021.svg

[xsuchy]

I would suggest http://miroslav.suchy.cz/osm/spring.png
! spring

I used to see this icon in our old maps and I very liked that. And it is very similar to what @javbw mentioned. It is created from from blue dot, which represent the spring itself, and the curve is made from letter S (as spring) and it is symbol of the water which flows from the spring.

[zdila]

Please use this icon http://goo.gl/ku7aWM

I am author of the icon and I am releasing it under public domain.

If you need any modification to that icon, feel free to do it or ask me to do it.

[pnorman]

The problem with rotating icons is coming up with a sufficiently complex SQL statement

Coming up with a sufficiently complex SQL statement is never a problem for me! :)

Please use this icon http://goo.gl/ku7aWM

I am author of the icon and I am releasing it under public domain.

If you need any modification to that icon, feel free to do it or ask me to do it.

How does that look rendered to 16x16?

[zdila]

I've uploaded new revision so that image fits to 16x16px page. Preview on green background:

[Klumbumbus]

I noticed that JOSM uses one icon for both springs and fountains.

JOSM-latest uses now different icons for spring and fountain. See https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/10597

[nebulon42]

For nodes that are part of a waterway a simple circle would be sufficient.
Like here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/48.18177/16.24524

Detached springs would look weird, though:

While I like the icon of @zdila it does not look so good connected to a waterway if not rotated properly:

Or something like @javbw proposed?

Admittedly, this needs more work so that it doesn't look like a flower, but I like the last variant best so far.

We also have to make sure that the icon is different enough from fountains (see #705 for rendering request).

[kocio-pl]

It's quite clear that it's not a flower because it has a water color and is not symmetric. It's much better than current symbol, so I would be happy to replace it as soon as possible. I think I will also use your icon for the fountain, so there's no risk of confusing them.

[kocio-pl]

What about something like this on z14:

[kocio-pl]

Another draft, based on the Osmic fountain icon (IMO lack of symmetry doesn't work with fountain anyway) with marina-text color:
z14


z19

[kocio-pl]

The same icon with lighter water-text color (#6699cc, also used for spring labels already) in park, without and with name label:
z14

z19

z16

z19

And in the forest:
z14

z16

z19

I would say the lighter version is better in general. We can try using halo around it, but I don't know how to do it - just adding:

    marker-line-color: #ffffff; 
    marker-line-width: 1;

is not working. Maybe the icon has to be prepared to show it?

[nebulon42]

IMO clearly better than what we have currently. Lighter is better but I think it is a bit too light for forest.

[kocio-pl]

Great! Do you like to make the color a bit darker or try a halo (in this case I need some instructions how to make it)?

[nebulon42]

marker-line-color and similar only work for arrow or ellipse marker types. You could either experiment with the color or try a halo. I still think that halos would be a good idea around all icons, but they were rejected for space reasons. So it might be strange if spring would be the only icon with one.

If you still want to try it, here is an example: https://github.com/gmgeo/osmic-josm-style/blob/master/icons/outdoor/fountain-18.svg Please note that the halo colour and opacity cannot be changed from within the stylesheet.

[kocio-pl]

It makes sense for me - dropping the fill will make it more abstract, while not being cryptic, language specific symbol as currently.

Additional note: context is always important, not only the graphic design. Properly mapped area will include stream flowing out of the spring. Cases like this:

are most probably just not finished. Maybe there are sources that don't have the visible stream flowing out, but they should be rare (does anybody know such places?). For example here the missing stream has been added eventually, along with many other objects:

Also the wells should generally be placed near some populated places, not in the middle of nowhere, where springs can be found. It's not a hard rule, but looking at the image above I don't think of wells or watering places, even without the streams attached.

[Penegal]

An example of @imagico's test without the blue fill:

At first, I thought of increasing the ring's thickness, but it may be voluntarily thin. What do you think?

[kocio-pl]

Hard to notice spring without the stream here (only the name helps). I would rather use the same color as stream, so it could be closer to original @matkoniecz design.

[Penegal]

Too thick a border, I assume. With a larger border using water color:

Still too difficult to see, I think; maybe the white outer of the old symbol could be of some use here, couldn't it? Or a darker blue?

[kocio-pl]

In this version it''s even harder to see the single spring. I guess one has to experiment with different options and maybe blue fill will be better than lack of it.

[polarbearing]

The discussion here takes a lot of side roads. I just want to consider that the spring icon needs to be visible in a body of water. See also #1482 about springs as areas.

[Penegal]

Oh, I didn’t notice I should keep an eye on that, thanks for noticing. Le 28 févr. 2018 à 14:27, polarbearing <notifications@github.com<mailto:notifications@github.com>> a écrit : The discussion here takes a lot of side roads. I just want to consider that the spring icon needs to be visible in a body of water. See also #1482<#1482> about springs as areas. — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#325 (comment)>, or mute the thread<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ANI7oHWDju9S_4v_ufj0kbgTVscqWX4Nks5tZVRDgaJpZM4Bed5D>.

[Penegal]

How about this way, with a white outline similar to the label:

[kocio-pl]

Could you test it on different backgrounds and without labels? Also some example with a stream flowing off. I guess this might be good solution.

[Penegal]

I'll try that when I will be able to do so.

[kocio-pl]

Maybe just publish the code you have used, so we could test it more.

[Penegal]

Here it is: Penegal@3b1d034 Neither the SVG code nor the commit history are clean, and this variant should be applied to spring_small.svg, too.

[Penegal]

Other tests:

I also tried using the blue shade of wetlands, like on French maps:

The second version seems too prominent to me, but what do you guys think?

[StyXman]

Something in between? I know it would be a new shade of blue, but I think it's worth it.

[Penegal]

Mmh… Could do it; examples using a fifty-fifty mix:

Is it me or is the color similar to the label one? Or is it the antialiasing?

[kocio-pl]

It's a bit too weak in the woods (especially without label), so it could be a bit stronger.

In my experience the color perception of the label depends on the halo - see #2845 (comment) for example.

[Penegal]

With a stronger halo:

• fifty-fifty mix:
  
  
• standard water color:
  
  

The first version seems more efficient to me, but I can live with the second if we must limit the number of colors displayed.

[kocio-pl]

I also like the first version more.

[Penegal]

Other opinions before I PR this?

[Penegal]

Sorry for the noise, I had trouble cleaning my history.

[xsuchy]

I like the version with the stronger halo more.