Render vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in

[dktue]

In germany we have a lot of discussion about parcel services having capacity issues due to the growth of e-commerce.

One discussed solution is to have less parcels be delivered to the home directly but to other parcel pickup-locations.

The biggest parcel service in germany is DHL: Most of their parcel pickup-locations are tagged with:

vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in

I guess this kind of problem occurs worldwide and the people should be aware of parcel pickup-locations, hence we should render them.

[dieterdreist]

while there is a clear usecase, I would think this is not suitable for a general map style, it should be served by a specific app/map.

[Tomasz-W]

Duplicate of #1561 (comment)

[kocio-pl]

I will close it as a duplicate, please discuss further problems in a proper ticket.

[imagico]

Reopening as #1561 has been closed without support for this so it is not a duplicate.

[imagico]

Current numbers:

• vending=parcel_pickup: 2800
• vending=parcel_mail_in: 326
• vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in: 6100
• vending=parcel_mail_in;parcel_pickup: 240

[dieterdreist]

Am Mi., 14. Apr. 2021 um 20:36 Uhr schrieb Christoph Hormann < ***@***.***>:

Current numbers: - vending=parcel_pickup: 2800 - vending=parcel_mail_in: 326 - vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in: 6100 - vending=parcel_mail_in;parcel_pickup: 240

the numbers aside, this tagging does not make sense and should be discouraged. These machines do not sell anything, or only in rare occasions, parcel pickup and mail in are not sold at the machine, the recipient does not pay for parcels she receives and if you pay fees, it is not for parcel mail in but for sending the parcel somewhere, but most are parcel pickup boxes where you do not buy anything i.e. the machine is not a vending machine and "vending" is not a suitable key.

[Tomasz-W]

Just for the note: my icon proposal from 2018.

Gist link: https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/18032cc646055bf17b866cb4eb48fa48

[ttomasz]

I launched a proposal to change the tagging https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/amenity%3Dparcel_lockers
Comments welcome. Currently discussion is mainly about whether restricting parcel lockers to nodes is valid or should we allow mapping them as areas.

[xsuchy]

We have recently imported 1300 parcel_pickups in the Czech Republic using this tagging schema
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:vending%3Dparcel_pickup
An example is here https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9172378855
Having it rendered at the same level as post boxes will be nice.

[dieterdreist]

Am Mi., 17. Nov. 2021 um 10:07 Uhr schrieb Miroslav Suchý < ***@***.***>:

We have recently imported 1300 parcel_pickups using this tagging schema https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:vending%3Dparcel_pickup

that's perfectly fine for those that ask for a fee in order to use them. Vending machine is for machines selling services and or goods.

[ttomasz]

Voting for proposal: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/amenity%3Dparcel_lockers started

[ttomasz]

Proposal was reworked due to high number of opposing votes being against a "machine" in the tag. New vote started: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/amenity%3Dparcel_locker

[ttomasz]

Looks like the proposal is going to pass so I think we can start thinking on how to render the feature. Since this is a new tag it doesn't matter when exactly it will be implemented in carto i.e. it can be added before features are retagged from old tags since they are not rendered right now anyway.

There are two options so far:
A. icon from @Tomasz-W :

https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/18032cc646055bf17b866cb4eb48fa48
B. icon from iD:

https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/ideditor/temaki/icons/vending_lockers.svg
Which would be better?

Additionally should other stuff be rendered like "ref"?

[xsuchy]

I vote for A.
ref is usually some internal number, which has no meaning for the public. I think the name can be rendered and if not present then the operator.

[mutipg]

I also vote for the A icon

When it comes to 'ref' rendering, it's not a bad idea, as it's the only ref that distinguishes devices that sometimes stand close together. Receiving parcels requires finding a specific parcel locker of a given operator, not as in the case of, for example, an ATM, where we can use any device of the operator you are looking for.

Rendering the description of parcel machines could look like this:

operator (if the tag operator is missing then name)
ref

i.e.

InPost
BAN1702N

[xsuchy]

Here is the example from my country
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/9172378855
the ref=11208 the number tells you exactly nothing. It is just a number referencing the ID in the operator DB (they share their DB with OSM with explicit agreement).

[ttomasz]

Here is an example from Polish operator who put two machines next to each other:
https://inpost.pl/paczkomat-warszawa-waw57a-grojecka-paczkomaty-mazowieckie
https://inpost.pl/paczkomat-warszawa-waw194ap-grojecka-paczkomaty-mazowieckie

Currently only one of them is in osm: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3718207074#map=19/52.20092/20.96930
but these IDs are shared with the user, example from e-mail informing of package:

(In the picture there is: id, city, address, description of location.)

These ids can potentially be useful depending on operator. I'm not trying to push this one way or the other, just wanted to provide an example to what @mutipg wrote.

[starsep]

I prefer icon A. It's easy to see the package (box).
I think an average person wouldn't know what icon B shows unless given some hint.
It looks like an electronic device (?) at first glance.

Rendering ref would be useful in Poland (as mentioned already): InPost (the most popular operator) puts multiple machines next to each other and it allows to differentiate them.

[ttomasz]

The proposal has been approved.

Seems like there is consensus to go for icon A.

@Tomasz-W the icon comes from https://thenounproject.com/icon/package-34255/ right?
Did you get it with paid licence which doesn't require attribution (and would allow us to use it) or free version which requires visible author attribution (which would mean we can't use it)?

[pnorman]

Did you get it with paid licence which doesn't require attribution (and would allow us to use it) or free version which requires visible author attribution (which would mean we can't use it)?

OpenStreetMap Carto is CC0. We can't use icons under any other terms.

[kuba-medrek]

Would it be possible to add small arrow "in" icon on lockers tagged with parcel_mail_in=yes and "out" icon on parcel_pickup=yes?

Also I believe it's better to render brand=* instead of operator=*.
I assumed following tagging example:

amenity=parcel_locker
brand=Packstation
brand:wikidata=Q1766703
brand:wikipedia=de:Packstation
operator=DHL
parcel_pickup=yes
parcel_mail_in=yes
ref=1234

What about rendering brand (fallback to operator, fallback to name) and signed_ref in bottom line (if present)? That would be most consistent with whole tagging scheme I believe.

[ttomasz]

OpenStreetMap Carto is CC0. We can't use icons under any other terms.

Okay, I clarified with Tomasz-W and this is icon that he created specifically for this purpose so licensing wise it's good.
New cleaned up file: https://gist.github.com/Tomasz-W/2d384de0d06e1991f449f5439320d0e8

I propose to use this icon as everyone above was in favour of it and then add text below if data from tags available:

1. brand or operator or name
2. ref

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 Do you still remember how to write code for new icons? 😅 Would you like to help with adding this element to map?

[Adamant36]

@Adamant36 Do you still remember how to write code for new icons? 😅 Would you like to help with adding this element to map?

Probably. I'd have to setup the environment again though and I'm sorta on a break anything related to OSM at the moment. Although I've been meaning to set things up for #4146. I can work on this whenever I get around to that issue if no one else does it in the meantime. Otherwise, feel free to ping me in a year or two😉

[imagico]

Updated use numbers (compare to #3558 (comment)):

• vending=parcel_pickup: 5776
• vending=parcel_mail_in: 285
• vending=parcel_pickup;parcel_mail_in: 11980
• vending=parcel_mail_in;parcel_pickup: 245

As mentioned in #4512 - the symbol designs discussed so far do not really work. As said there: When you want to illustrate infrastructure for human interaction the most intuitive symbol is often coming from illustrating the human activity itself. And perspective is not typically going to work well at our standard symbol size, we therefore with good reason mostly use profile depictions in our symbol designs.

To try providing a bit of a teaching moment here a draft based on this paradigm:

https://imagico.de/files/package_plain.svg

Feel free to experiment with different design ideas - this is not meant to say that only this concept has a chance to be accepted. But you need to put some thought and ambition into it - not just take some design from elsewhere, maybe even from a non-map context, and assume this will just work in a map for an international audience like this.