[SUGGESTION] Move by default for in parameters?

[tylerjw]

Ever since the introduction of move semantics a ton of boilerplate code has been written to enable moving the ownership of variables into arguments to functions or constructors.

Have you considered making in-parameters move by default with explicit syntax for creating a copy when the user would prefer to not move the ownership of a variable into the scope of a function?

In many cases moving into a parameter is the correct choice but the current syntax for doing that correctly is difficult to learn and use correctly.

One side-effect of doing this would mean that to maintain safety the compiler would need to detect when someone used a variable after they moved it. clang-tidy does have a check for this: https://clang.llvm.org/extra/clang-tidy/checks/bugprone/use-after-move.html

[filipsajdak]

Hm... move by default will make simple cases unintuitive.

E.g. code:

i := 42;
fun(i);
gun(i);
g := i + 1;

will be bad... or it need to be forbidden.

Above code is fine from mathematics point of view - we shall support that. All the other cases needs to stand out e.g. by additional keywords:

i := 42;
fun(out i); // i will be out parameter - expect it will be changed
gun(i);
g := i + 1;

[tylerjw]

The suggestion of moving by default does look silly with trivial types like an integer. Maybe there should be some "trivially copyable" kind of types that get copied by default, where all others get moved by default?

This is a behavior of Rust that I find results in a lot less boilerplate than the C++ code I write. I know there is resistance to copying ideas from Rust, but this is one that, enabled by the type system, is safe, ergonomic, and performant by default. When writing C++ code, authors of types have to create a lot of boilerplate code to enable users to use move semantics. This isn't easy to learn to do correctly and makes for a lot of noisy syntaxes at both the function definition and the call site to enable moving ownership.

[switch-blade-stuff]

Move by default is what Rust does, but I don't see it to be a good idea for cppfront. In Rust every type is considered "trivial" and deep-copies are explicit. Meanwhile C++ does the opposite where copies are the default behavior and anything else is explicit.

Additionally, making trivial types be passed by-copy and non-trivial be passed by move in some cases and not in other will be very confusing and lead to unintended hurdles IMO. It should either be default-copy or default-move not both.

Also it does not help that in C++ there is no such thing as a destructive move yet, and that move operations can be overloaded, so default-move will loose that advantage (shallow memcpy) as well.

[JohelEGP]

Have you considered making in-parameters move by default with explicit syntax for creating a copy when the user would prefer to not move the ownership of a variable into the scope of a function?

You should get that when the argument is a last use.

[tylerjw]

You should get that when the argument is a last use.

Is there anything about C++ that makes it easy for compilers to track where the last use of a variable is? My impression is that even when this would be safe, it is not allowed unless explicitly asked for by the code. What happens to references to variables when the variable is moved?

[tylerjw]

Also it does not help that in C++ there is no such thing as a destructive move yet

By referencing the clang-tidy check, I was implying that this would require some static analysis in the compiler to be safe. Destructive moves could solve that problem.

[JohelEGP]

Is there anything about C++ that makes it easy for compilers to track where the last use of a variable is?

Cppfront does it. I think you can see that on the CppCon talk on the README.

[tylerjw]

Cppfront does it. I think you can see that on the CppCon talk on the README.

I'm sorry, I don't remember that from the talk. How does that work? Is cppfront doing ownership and lifetime analysis for variables?

[JohelEGP]

#77 (comment) has a link into that.

[hsutter]

Quick ack while at the ISO C++ meeting (which just finished a few hours ago so I'm briefly looking in here):

Is there anything about C++ that makes it easy for compilers to track where the last use of a variable is?

See this 1-min clip from the CppCon 2022 talk.

For more details see the longer treatment of parameter passing in the CppCon 2020 talk starting at 16:11.

[tylerjw]

Feel free to close this, I did not understand how the in/out/inout/forward parameter annotations would address the pain point of all the boilerplate around moving parameters, but now I think I understand much better.

Thank you for the explanations; I could see how this would make this part of the language much nicer. My initial thought of move-by-default comes from writing Rust recently. One thing that it relies on for making move-by-default work well though is the Copy trait which I don't see any straightforward way to replicate in C++.

Having clear syntax to tell the compiler how you intend to use a parameter seems like it would be a really nice abstraction.

[fluffinity]

C++ technically has the ability to query whether a type can be trivially copied via the std::is_trivially_copyable type trait. Such types can be copied via a simple memcpy. As things look at the moment this logic would have to be to re-implemented within the cppfront compiler.

As this would mean having logic to query certain attributes of types within cppfront itself such a feature would go in hand with the support for custom structs/classes. When the compiler has to support user written types it needs to reason about them anyways.

[switch-blade-stuff]

@fluffychaos

As this would mean having logic to query certain attributes of types within cppfront itself

What do you mean by that? You can already use standard type traits with cppfront. Or did you mean something else?

Also, the main difference about value semantics in C++ and Rust is that Rust does memcpy by default, and only does deep copies if you ask it to, meanwhile C++ defaults to deep copies which may become memcpy in the end, but not required to. And since both copy and move constructors can be overloaded in C++, you cannot really rely on it being a simple memcpy all the time.

[fluffinity]

@switch-blade-stuff

What do you mean by that? You can already use standard type traits with cppfront. Or did you mean something else?

Currently cppfront will just generate the C++ code containing usage of these type traits but will not recognize them specifically. It does not know about trivially copyable types. In order to safely allow for automatic copies in the form of memcpy you need this knowledge.

Also, the main difference about value semantics in C++ and Rust is that Rust does memcpy by default, and only does deep copies if you ask it to, meanwhile C++ defaults to deep copies which may become memcpy in the end, but not required to. And since both copy and move constructors can be overloaded in C++, you cannot really rely on it being a simple memcpy all the time.

This is why cppfront needs to reason about a type being trivially copyable. It is the equivalent to Rusts Copy trait. Both indicate to the compiler that instances of these types can be cheaply copied and in C++ it also means there is no custom copy logic involved making a shallow memcpy sufficient. This way the compiler can know when a move can become a copy instead.

The example given in the above comment would become ergonomic as the numeric primitive types are all trivially copyable and the compiler would make copies instead of moves then. If i was a not trivially copyable it would not compile again as then the compiler would use moves. This is the desired outcome.