[Old Uyghur] Initial submission of oui_ougr_143 keyboard

[AmacsizBirKisi]

Old Uyghur Keyboard using the Old Uyghur Abjad Script

[keyman-server]

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[LornaSIL]

Thanks for your keyboard submission! It will be great to have an Old Uyghur keyboard in the repo. I will have a lot of feedback since this is your first submission. Please don't be discouraged. We want to have keyboards that are really useful and I think the changes I ask for will be helpful to keyboard users.

• The copyright holder is not consistent. In various places it says abKAA© which doesn't seem like a valid copyright holder. In readme.htm it says Kadir Garip. That sounds like a more valid copyright name. Can you change it to the correct copyright holder in all of the following files:
  • LICENSE.md
  • oui_ougr_143.kmn
  • oui_ougr_143.kps (on the Details tab)
  • readme.htm (if that one is not accurate either)
• In the .kmn file:
  • the name of the keyboard will not be understandable if someone doesn't have an appropriate font (I see square boxes). It might be best to include "Old Uyghur" in the keyboard name.
  • You are using the ALT key which is fine. However, I think people would have a better experience if you use RALT instead. Many computers will use ALT+c or ALT+v to copy and paste, etc. If you define your rules as RALT instead, they can continue to use those keyboard shortcuts. You would have to regenerate your On-Screen keyboard if you change the rules.
  • On the On-Screen keyboard I just see square boxes. I had to assign "Noto Serif Old Uyghur" in the Keyboard / Fonts dialog:
    
  • Even then, there are square boxes on the shift layer because you are trying to support both Old Uyghur and some unusual Latin characters. It is unlikely that you would find a font that supports both. It would be best to just try to support the Old Uyghur script rather than trying to support a Latin orthography at the same time.
  • For the touch layout, the same issues with font are there. In addition, there are some issues with accessing the layers. You'll need to select the "Shift" key and then set "Next Layer" or the user won't be able to access the next layer. You'll need to do that for all of the Shift states.
• In the .kps file you would be wise to add the "Noto Serif Old Uyghur" font to the list of files. If you have the keymanapp/keyboards repo cloned, you will find the font We have that font here: keyboards\release\shared\fonts\noto\Ougr
  • Then, on the Keyboards tab you should select the font under Keyboard font AND under Display font.
  • Under the Details tab you should change the name of the keyboard to something like "Old Uyghur" or whatever you chose for the .kmn name
  • Under Welcome file select welcome.htm
  • Please do fix the copyright and author. If you do not wish to include an author, that can be blank, but copyright cannot be blank.
• In the welcome file we would recommend including more documentation on the keyboard layout. Usually people will go to the .kmn file, go to On screen, and click on Export. That allows you to include a graphic of the keyboard layout in the documentation. You would then need to include the graphic(s) in the welcome file. You would also need to include the graphic in the list of files in the .kps.

I have only done minimal testing of the keyboard. If you can address the above issues then I can check it again. Thanks!

[LornaSIL]

Thanks for these updates. Some more comments.

• The welcome.htm file is good.
• The image.html file doesn't seem to contribute anything. You could delete it, but be very careful that the folder image_files does not get deleted. Then, remove image.html from the list of files in the .kps
• You've listed image.html in the Details/Image file slot. That should actually be a graphic image if you want one. Some people want to include a special graphic to represent their company. If you don't want one, you can leave that blank. It needs to be a specific size. I think it should be 140x250. If you leave it blank it will be the Keyman banner.
  An example of where that image would be used is when you double-click on a .kmp you see this (the left Keyman image):

Somebody else wanted their own banner:

• In the .kps file under Files you will need to add all the graphics from the image_files folder. That way the design of the keyboard will display properly.
• Also in the .kps, under Details consider changing the name to "Old Uyghur" the way you did in the .kmn file:

• About versioning, you don't need to bump the version every time you make a change on your computer. You can just bump the version when you submit a new PR. If we haven't accepted the PR yet, you can just leave the version the same.

• On the touch layout,

  • On the default layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none. Also, you should change the ID from K_0 back to K_SHIFT.
  • On the shift layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select default instead of none.
  • On the alt layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none.
  • The Alt key always seems to be set correctly.
    

• I have another question about the rules in your keyboard. You have a lot of rules outputting a space character. For example:
  + [K_I] > ' '
  Do you really wish to output a space? If you don't, you could write the rule like this:
  + [K_I] > nul
  And it wouldn't output anything. But, since I'm not familiar with Old Uyghur I don't know if this is what you want or not.

Thanks for fixing all the issues I mentioned yesterday!

[AmacsizBirKisi]

Thanks for reviewing my keyboard, I will fix the issues you have listed here as soon as possible. As for the output of space characters, I have done so that Old Uyghur script (written right-left) is not confused with unsupported Latin characters (left-right). I was not familiar with “nul” output before this e-mail. The “i” and “o” characters also used to write U+10F82 and U+10F83 (Old Uyghur fatha and kathra diacritics) respectively, but I scrapped that functionality in my second draft. Admittedly, my reason to bump a new version was because I could not figure out how to edit the first submission, sorry for that. Hopefully this e-mail answered your questions. Gönderen: Lorna Evans ***@***.***> Gönderildi: Friday, September 20, 2024 12:54:40 AM Kime: keymanapp/keyboards ***@***.***> Bilgi: AmacsizBirKisi ***@***.***>; Author ***@***.***> Konu: Re: [keymanapp/keyboards] [Old Uyghur] Initial submission of oui_ougr_143 keyboard (PR #3104) Thanks for these updates. Some more comments. * The welcome.htm file is good. * The image.html file doesn't seem to contribute anything. You could delete it, but be very careful that the folder image_files does not get deleted. Then, remove image.html from the list of files in the .kps * You've listed image.html in the Details/Image file slot. That should actually be a graphic image if you want one. Some people want to include a special graphic to represent their company. If you don't want one, you can leave that blank. It needs to be a specific size. I think it should be 140x250. If you leave it blank it will be the Keyman banner. An example of where that image would be used is when you double-click on a .kmp you see this (the left Keyman image): image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/d56ba42c-565d-487a-89bf-081d42966ed3> Somebody else wanted their own banner: image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/6cf3f8a4-4a96-4555-b671-cba92c07cfcb> * In the .kps file under Files you will need to add all the graphics from the image_files folder. That way the design of the keyboard will display properly. * Also in the .kps, under Details consider changing the name to "Old Uyghur" the way you did in the .kmn file: image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/f5628247-0a90-45c6-87b1-551131f63890> * About versioning, you don't need to bump the version every time you make a change on your computer. You can just bump the version when you submit a new PR. If we haven't accepted the PR yet, you can just leave the version the same. * On the touch layout, * On the default layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none. Also, you should change the ID from K_0 back to K_SHIFT. * On the shift layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select default instead of none. * On the alt layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none. * The Alt key always seems to be set correctly. touch.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/66d2e70d-12a9-4d6c-9b2f-99f61cbc9839> * I have another question about the rules in your keyboard. You have a lot of rules outputting a space character. For example: + [K_I] > ' ' Do you really wish to output a space? If you don't, you could write the rule like this: + [K_I] > nul And it wouldn't output anything. But, since I'm not familiar with Old Uyghur I don't know if this is what you want or not. Thanks for fixing all the issues I mentioned yesterday! — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#3104 (comment)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BLMJ7XJGX6LDVFFMEKSHNR3ZXNB2BAVCNFSM6AAAAABONTQDD6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDGNRSGI3DSMJVHA>. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***> Windows 10 için Posta<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> ile gönderildi Kimden: Lorna ***@***.***> Gönderilme: 20 Eylül 2024 Cuma 00:54 Kime: ***@***.***> Bilgi: ***@***.***>; ***@***.***> Konu: Re: [keymanapp/keyboards] [Old Uyghur] Initial submission of oui_ougr_143 keyboard (PR #3104) Thanks for these updates. Some more comments. * The welcome.htm file is good. * The image.html file doesn't seem to contribute anything. You could delete it, but be very careful that the folder image_files does not get deleted. Then, remove image.html from the list of files in the .kps * You've listed image.html in the Details/Image file slot. That should actually be a graphic image if you want one. Some people want to include a special graphic to represent their company. If you don't want one, you can leave that blank. It needs to be a specific size. I think it should be 140x250. If you leave it blank it will be the Keyman banner. An example of where that image would be used is when you double-click on a .kmp you see this (the left Keyman image): image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/d56ba42c-565d-487a-89bf-081d42966ed3> Somebody else wanted their own banner: image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/6cf3f8a4-4a96-4555-b671-cba92c07cfcb> * In the .kps file under Files you will need to add all the graphics from the image_files folder. That way the design of the keyboard will display properly. * Also in the .kps, under Details consider changing the name to "Old Uyghur" the way you did in the .kmn file: image.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/f5628247-0a90-45c6-87b1-551131f63890> * About versioning, you don't need to bump the version every time you make a change on your computer. You can just bump the version when you submit a new PR. If we haven't accepted the PR yet, you can just leave the version the same. * On the touch layout, * On the default layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none. Also, you should change the ID from K_0 back to K_SHIFT. * On the shift layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select default instead of none. * On the alt layer, you should select the Shift key and on Next Layout select shift instead of none. * The Alt key always seems to be set correctly. touch.png (view on web)<https://github.com/user-attachments/assets/66d2e70d-12a9-4d6c-9b2f-99f61cbc9839> * I have another question about the rules in your keyboard. You have a lot of rules outputting a space character. For example: + [K_I] > ' ' Do you really wish to output a space? If you don't, you could write the rule like this: + [K_I] > nul And it wouldn't output anything. But, since I'm not familiar with Old Uyghur I don't know if this is what you want or not. Thanks for fixing all the issues I mentioned yesterday! — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#3104 (comment)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BLMJ7XJGX6LDVFFMEKSHNR3ZXNB2BAVCNFSM6AAAAABONTQDD6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDGNRSGI3DSMJVHA>. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[LornaSIL]

I'm also a little concerned about the use of the region code in both the BCP 47 tag and in the name of the keyboard. 143 seems to be for Moldova. Is that really what is wanted? The minimal tag could easily just be oui without a script or a region code. Normally a keyboard would be named something like old_uyghur as the ID and "Old Uyghur" for the name of the keyboard with a BCP 47 code of oui. Apparently ybe West Yugur also used the script so you could add ybe-Ougr to the list of languages the keyboard supports. That another reason we tend not to use IDs for the language tag because often the keyboard will support multiple languages.

If all of this is too much change, and if you are in agreement, I can take what you've done and do the final changing of the name and BCP47 codes on your behalf. You would still be the author.

[AmacsizBirKisi]

I chose the BCP tag 143 as it was the region-code for “Central Asia”, that is why I chose it, I may have chosen the wrong option though. Also, the letters for the keyboard mostly obey the much later, 18th century Western Yugur Buddhist Scribal rules (as in, some symbols and diacritics are the way they are in the latest surviving attestations of Old Uyghur from Buddhist translations of mantras [and this is also what the Second revision mostly changed.]) I am in agreement, since I am not too familiar with GitHub and the Keyman interface, so it would be better if you could make these changes yourself. I would really appreciate that. Windows 10 için Posta<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> ile gönderildi Kimden: Lorna ***@***.***> Gönderilme: 24 Eylül 2024 Salı 17:27 Kime: ***@***.***> Bilgi: ***@***.***>; ***@***.***> Konu: Re: [keymanapp/keyboards] [Old Uyghur] Initial submission of oui_ougr_143 keyboard (PR #3104) I'm also a little concerned about the use of the region code in both the BCP 47 tag and in the name of the keyboard. 143 seems to be for Moldova. Is that really what is wanted? The minimal tag could easily just be oui without a script or a region code. Normally a keyboard would be named something like old_uyghur as the ID and "Old Uyghur" for the name of the keyboard with a BCP 47 code of oui. Apparently ybe West Yugur also used the script so you could add ybe-Ougr to the list of languages the keyboard supports. That another reason we tend not to use IDs for the language tag because often the keyboard will support multiple languages. If all of this is too much change, and if you are in agreement, I can take what you've done and do the final changing of the name and BCP47 codes on your behalf. You would still be the author. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#3104 (comment)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BLMJ7XP4QLWLK2WO54GLMGLZYFZFLAVCNFSM6AAAAABONTQDD6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDGNZRGQ3DCNBTHA>. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[LornaSIL]

143 seems to be for Moldova.

Yes, you are right, it is for Central Asia. My google search was apparently for some other code, maybe telephone. Anyway, irrelevant.

I would still like to make the changes I was recommending. I'll let you know how it goes and if I have questions.

My first question is, are you saying this keyboard would not be suitable for ybe (West Yugur)?

[AmacsizBirKisi]

It definitely wouldn’t be appropriate adding the ybe tag for this keyboard. Thing is, meanwhile Western Yugur people historically used this script (a good example for this would be http://members.home.nl/marcmarti/yugur/language/wyutext/wyu31a.htm ,but it 404’s on me,) but they don’t use a writing system anymore (it can be used to write it anyway.) You should keep the oui tag, since if we were to include every language this script was used to write in, there would be a need for over ten or eleven language tags in total. While I am at it, I should describe the language you will be dealing with in more detail as to give you some hints: While I was designing this keyboard, I took the 14th and 16th century manuscripts (pictured below) as a basis (since they would be the most recent and would be more representative as a whole.) It was also the most convenient to transcribe and overall quite systematic (for comparison, earlier texts [9th century] would borrow Manichaean and Sogdian letters wholesale for loanwords, while Chinese loanwords would be written with even Aramaic letters in some texts.) You really don’t need to modify any of the letters on the keyboard. Some inputs will type in what appears to be two letters (or a letter and diacritic.) Since I did my editing on a Turkish QWERTY keyboard, I’ve mapped the key right to the l (‘ş’ on my interface) the “shin” and two keys right to the m (‘ç’ on my interface) “shin with double kathra”. You might want to change this if these keys are unintuitive, but please keep these separate as the double-kathra variant is quite prevalent across the corpus. [You can check out the .xlsl file in the bundle, if you haven’t already, for more information.] Also, the attestations often have a kasheeda (the long stretching) to appear more blocky and uniform. The kasheeda is not phonemic, is purely aesthetical and not even represented in Unicode, so I decided not to adding it (you can see the elongated letter forms in the appendix images below:) Buddhist manuscript “Tisastvustik”, c. 14th century: Specimen 1: ***@***.*** Specimen 2: ***@***.*** Specimen 3+4: ***@***.*** Unidentified 16th century text (for writing Classical Mongolian): ***@***.*** Thanks in advance, for helping me with this keyboard. Windows 10 için Posta<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> ile gönderildi Kimden: Lorna ***@***.***> Gönderilme: 24 Eylül 2024 Salı 21:10 Kime: ***@***.***> Bilgi: ***@***.***>; ***@***.***> Konu: Re: [keymanapp/keyboards] [Old Uyghur] Initial submission of oui_ougr_143 keyboard (PR #3104) 143 seems to be for Moldova. Yes, you are right, it is for Central Asia. My google search was apparently for some other code, maybe telephone. Anyway, irrelevant. I would still like to make the changes I was recommending. I'll let you know how it goes and if I have questions. My first question is, are you saying this keyboard would not be suitable for ybe (West Yugur)? — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#3104 (comment)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/BLMJ7XMMS64R3WMDH7XMCB3ZYGTHTAVCNFSM6AAAAABONTQDD6VHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDGNZRHE3TKNJWG4>. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[LornaSIL]

The keyboard is now available online: https://keyman.com/keyboards/old_uyghur

I did not include the spreadsheets in the package, but I left them in the repo. We don't usually include that kind of file in a keyboard package.

Thanks for helping support this script!