softlist: splitted programmer into multiple entries #14146

holub · 2025-09-08T22:33:02Z

No description provided.

holub · 2025-09-08T22:35:10Z

If you have no idea what to read before go to sleep, that would be ideal candidate.

cuavas

I found some that weren’t fully split, and some that were dubious to begin with.

There seems to be a general issue with the 4am stuff that it’s just based on the credits, and everyone credited has been dumped in as a “programmer”, including writers, artists, producers, etc. Also, uncredited programmers are not listed, even in cases where they’re well known.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T14:12:14Z

hash/mac_flop_orig.xml

Unrelated to this PR, but was Mei-Ying C. Dell’Aquila actually a programmer? I know they did artwork/graphics/animation for multiple Apple IIgs and Macintosh games, but I don’t think they were actually a programmer.

For this game specifically, I think Gregory Simons was the only programmer, Scott Levy was the level designer, and Mark Jeffery and Mei-Ying C. Dell’Aquila were artists.

Do some of these programmer info elements for 4am games just have all the people listed in the credits dumped into them?

I've been adding everyone or mostly everyone in the credits. If we should be limiting to only programmers, I can do that, but we should have options for artists and such. A-Noid

Maybe just rename "programmer" to "developer"?

Let me complete the split and then we can work on correcting meta after. I'm planning to preserve Vas' suspicious in comments.

Maybe just rename "programmer" to "developer"?

I've been using company names for developer, when a company develops it and doesn't list the programmers.

I feel like "publisher" is more suitable for this case, but needs conclusion from others.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T14:18:42Z

hash/mac_flop_orig.xml

I’m guessing people are listed how they’re credited in the game itself, but if different variants of a name are used it makes filtering a bit more cumbersome (also another game that seems to list an artist as a “programmer” in the software list.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T14:21:33Z

hash/apple2gs_flop_misc.xml

This looks like another case of calling everyone credited a “programmer” – Roberta Williams was a writer, not a programmer (and I think Al Lowe was as well).

cuavas · 2025-09-09T14:24:00Z

hash/apple2gs_flop_clcracked.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Marek Jackiewicz, Andrzej Miciłkiewicz, Marcin Szostakowski, Maciej Markuszewski, and Dorota Błaszczak" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Marek Jackiewicz" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Andrzej Miciłkiewicz, Marcin Szostakowski, Maciej Markuszewski, and Dorota Błaszczak" />


This one wasn’t fully split? Confused by Polish surnames?

cuavas · 2025-09-09T14:25:11Z

hash/apple2gs_flop_clcracked.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Marek Jackiewicz, Andrzej Miciłkiewicz, Marcin Szostakowski, Maciej Markuszewski, and Dorota Błaszczak" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Marek Jackiewicz" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Andrzej Miciłkiewicz, Marcin Szostakowski, Maciej Markuszewski, and Dorota Błaszczak" />


More Polish names not separated. I think it only happens when “ł” is in a name before the last one.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T15:09:55Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer, Alissa Ossip, Donald Way, Jo Ann Comito, Stuart Blavatnik, Amy E. McKinley, Rose Trivisonno, Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Maureen Stapleton, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Alissa Ossip" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Donald Way" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Jo Ann Comito" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Stuart Blavatnik" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Amy E. McKinley" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Rose Trivisonno" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Maureen Stapleton, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />


Another similar one.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T15:10:13Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer, Alissa Ossip, Donald Way, Jo Ann Comito, Stuart Blavatnik, Rose Trivisonno, Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Maureen Stapleton, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Alissa Ossip" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Donald Way" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Jo Ann Comito" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Stuart Blavatnik" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Rose Trivisonno" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Maureen Stapleton, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />


Next in the block of similar ones.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T15:10:34Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer, Alissa Ossip, Donald Way, Jo Ann Comito, Stuart Blavatnik, Rose Trivisonno, Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Cary Hammer" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Alissa Ossip" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Donald Way" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Jo Ann Comito" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Stuart Blavatnik" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Rose Trivisonno" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Lisa Feder-Feitel, Lisa Mandel, Jessica Stonier, and Tara Framer" />


Maybe the last similar one in this block.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T15:11:02Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value=" D. A. Decker, Jr." />
+		<info name="programmer" value="D. A. Decker Jr." />


This lost its comma.

cuavas · 2025-09-09T15:12:27Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

-		<info name="programmer" value="Chuck Sommerville, John Leupp, Kevin Norman, Larry Clague, and Scott Nelson; ported to the Apple ][ by John Stouffer, Jeff Webb, Doug Matson, Greg Broniak, Tim Grost, Matt Decker, Vera Petrusha, Ken Evans, Dr. Keith Dreyer, and Chris Oesterling" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Chuck Sommerville" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="John Leupp" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Kevin Norman" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Larry Clague" />
+		<info name="programmer" value="Scott Nelson; ported to the Apple ][ by John Stouffer, Jeff Webb, Doug Matson, Greg Broniak, Tim Grost, Matt Decker, Vera Petrusha, Ken Evans, Dr. Keith Dreyer, and Chris Oesterling" />


Another one that totally confused it.

holub · 2025-09-10T01:42:49Z

I think it's in a better shape now.
I decided not add comments about suspected role as too many "Roberta Williams" and "Al Lowe" marked as a programmer

holub · 2025-09-10T15:10:24Z

It sounds reasonable to change programmer -> developer, but I noticed entries where we currently have both.

holub · 2025-09-10T15:11:56Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

 	</software>

 	<software name="bilestod">
 		<description>The Bilestoad</description>


holub · 2025-09-10T15:12:13Z

hash/apple2_flop_orig.xml

 		<!-- Dump released: 2018-09-24 -->

 		<part name="flop1" interface="floppy_5_25">
 			<dataarea name="flop" size="233458">


holub · 2025-09-26T17:25:50Z

@cuavas are we still interested doing this or can I drop the PR?

cuavas · 2025-09-26T17:39:45Z

@cuavas are we still interested doing this or can I drop the PR?

Still interested, but it requires thought, and it’s complicated, and I had my hands full with the release.

It sounds reasonable to change programmer -> developer, but I noticed entries where we currently have both.

Programmer and developer are different things.

Developer is a company or group who develops a piece of software, as opposed to the publisher that markets it. Using the game Myst as an example, the developer was Cyan Inc., and the publisher was Brøderbund Software (for the original Mac/Windows versions).

A programmer is a person involved in writing code/scripts/etc. for the software. For Myst, that would be Rand Miller IIRC.

For indie games, there’s some overlap – the developer may be an individual who was also the sole programmer.

I've been adding everyone or mostly everyone in the credits. If we should be limiting to only programmers, I can do that, but we should have options for artists and such. A-Noid

The trouble with trying to put all the credits into the software lists is that you’re trying to recreate MobyGames, and we definitely don’t have the resources to maintain that. The scope is just too big.

I think a line has to be drawn somewhere, but I don’t know exactly where.

holub · 2025-09-26T17:43:21Z

sure I'll wait as much as need and keep eye on conflicts if any appear

A-Noid33 · 2025-09-26T18:33:29Z

@cuavas I feel that we should add the people that created music or graphics for the games. I'm fine if we lump them into a separate tag. I've been using developer as the name of the companies that developed the software.

There's been a big update this week to the Mac dumps, so I'll probably work on that this weekend. It won't take much to change them to whatever we decide.

A-Noid

holub mentioned this pull request Sep 8, 2025

apple2_flop_orig.xml: Added 22 working, redumped 1 (promoted to working), and removed 3 #14143

Merged

holub force-pushed the info-clean branch 3 times, most recently from 963221d to bc857ae Compare September 8, 2025 22:53

softlist: splitted programmer into multiple entries

82b3d43

holub force-pushed the info-clean branch from bc857ae to 82b3d43 Compare September 9, 2025 00:52

cuavas reviewed Sep 9, 2025

View reviewed changes

holub added 3 commits September 9, 2025 20:34

Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/mamedev/mame into info-clean

4f3f3e5

more splits

2b181ec

tidy

70cf332

holub requested a review from cuavas September 10, 2025 15:08

holub commented Sep 10, 2025

View reviewed changes

holub added 2 commits October 1, 2025 21:57

Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/mamedev/mame into info-clean

bbe5556

few more

a241ce0

		<info name="programmer" value=" D. A. Decker, Jr." />
		<info name="programmer" value="D. A. Decker Jr." />

softlist: splitted programmer into multiple entries #14146

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softlist: splitted programmer into multiple entries #14146

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holub commented Sep 8, 2025

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holub Sep 9, 2025 • edited Loading Uh oh! There was an error while loading. Please reload this page.

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holub commented Sep 10, 2025

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holub commented Sep 26, 2025

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cuavas commented Sep 26, 2025

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holub commented Sep 26, 2025

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A-Noid33 commented Sep 26, 2025

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holub Sep 9, 2025 •

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