reaching out to irccloud.com #292
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/cc @Trott @jbergstroem @nodejs/community-committee |
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@refack I think IRCCloud is very helpful to making IRC friendly to more folks. I haven't looked into how they handle accessibility. I use it myself and it'd be rad for us to get a team license. Is this something they've granted to other orgs? |
AFAIK not publicly. I do know they were very actively recruiting beta testers during their earlier phases |
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I happen to be at a pub with a member of the irccloud team right now!
They do not donate to open source, but I think we should still consider
getting a block of licenses for collaborators
I've pinged @hackygolucky about this to see if maybe we can get funding
…On Jul 12, 2017 2:43 AM, "Refael Ackermann" ***@***.***> wrote:
Is this something they've granted to other orgs?
AFAIK not publicly. I do know they were very actively recruiting beta
testers during their earlier phases
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Serendipity FTW 🎆 |
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Hi from IRCCloud. Regarding accessibility, we were reviewed by a blind accessibility expert from Mozilla in 2015. You can read their report here: https://www.marcozehe.de/2015/12/07/looking-at-the-accessibility-of-the-irccloud-service/ It's true that we don't do discounts for open source or non-profit. The economic truth is that this would result in a significant portion of our userbase being discounted, and as a small independent company, it wouldn't be sustainable. It's worth a reminder that we will always have a free tier. For regular users, the lack of persistence will understandably be an issue, but for a community member who might just be seeking the answer to a single question, that may not be a deal breaker. We also have a built in "auto-inviter" similar to slackin to make it easier for people to create an account and join a specific channel directly: https://www.irccloud.com/badges And of course, being IRC, linking users to other free webchat services like kiwi or freenode webchat remains a possibility. As an aside, I'd also like to add that I've read through most of nodejs/community-committee#11 and understand a lot of the issues raised there. I personally use both Slack and IRC, and I see them as complementary, so it's encouraging to see that the decision was not to choose one over the other. For us, Slack is just another IRC server, and we have plans to integrate more closely with Slack in future. In addition, a lot of the great new (and old) ideas from Slack are making their way to IRC and IRCCloud via the @ircv3 project, which we're heavily involved in. Think reactions, threading, avatars, message editing/deletion, attachments, etc. It's exciting. Anyway, if you have any further questions about IRCCloud let me know, or feel free to email us privately on team@irccloud.com to discuss anything on the sales/discount side further. |
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Should this still have a |
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@Trott we can drive this from already existing budget we just need to figure out how it fits into the yearly budget |
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Is there a next step here or can this be closed? |
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if it makes any difference, i actually just bought an irccloud subscription specifically for keeping up with node channels, so a definite +1 to getting some accounts budgeted. |
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I would like to see this move forward if at all possible. I'm going to add the cc-agenda label to discuss in the next CommComm meeting. |
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ping @mrhinkle |
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Umm, have we considered self-hosting an instance of thelounge (https://thelounge.chat/) instead? It's simple, open-source, self-hosted (+1 as I'm paranoid), and guess what – built on Node. We could spin one up really cheap and make accounts for all the members of the nodejs org (or perhaps only the ones that ask for it). I've been using it recently all the time, and I figured out that it is cheaper if a group of friends rent a server and host this instead. The web app works perfectly on all platforms as it's a PWA. I'd love to see it getting considered too. |
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Deviating from more established UIs and experiences (IRC, Slack, and even Discord, despite my dislike of it) has a high cost - self-hosting imo doesn't provide value (node itself is hosted on github), but ease-of-adoption does. |
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Talking of ease-of-adoption, we're already on spectrum.chat (https://spectrum.chat/node). Why aren't we promoting it more? |
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@ljharb Umm, wait a minute. I think you misunderstood me. Using thelounge isn't deviating from IRC. |
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Ah, thanks for clarifying, i did indeed misunderstand you. |
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That's why it's cheaper to self-host thelounge than buy a ton of IRC Cloud subscriptions. I mean, a DO droplet costs $5 a month. That's the cost of a single subscription. |
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@ryzokuken the main concern I would have with the foundation hosting any sort of persistent server would be ensuring that we could properly encrypt data and protect logs. Considering that many of use have other things we have privileged conversations on IRC, about node and other topics, there is a serious risk of creating a centralized place that could be attacked |
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@MylesBorins agreed that'd definitely be a concern. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't major server providers (AWS, DO, Azure) provide decent security measures? |
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@ryzokuken while the providers may provide a certain level of security every process that is exposed to the open web is a potential threat vector. So we could potentially find ourselves vulnerable to any vulnerabilities in thelounge, it's dependencies, or anything else in the system that hosts it. Part of the benefit of relying on a business for these services would be the SLA that comes with it... while they too might be vulnerable to all sorts of things... it at least doesn't become our responsibility to manage adjusts tinfoil the last thing I would like to see is a vulnerable system leak a ton of privileged logs including PIA, embargoed security details, and who knows what else |
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I agree with the SLA bit, it does make us sleep a little easier. That said, I think we can put enough counter-measures to avoid anything like this from happening. Just wanted to pitch in with a cheaper alternative so that this could be pushed. I'd love to see this in action, regardless to which provider we decide to go with in the end. |
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@ryzokuken fwiw I really appreciate the suggestion. I just think we need to be careful about hosting user data 😄 |
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as long as we're talking about other platforms, discord has been pushing to open source projects (https://discordapp.com/open-source) and personally i like using discord. additionally big names like yarn, react, vue, and jest all use it. if we get node on there too we can have all these js ecosystem communities in the same-ish spot which i think will definitely improve our ability to fluently help people and discuss things |
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@devsnek +1 for discord. Apart from the fact that it isn't open-source itself, I haven't heard a lot of "real" criticism against the use of discord. I've seen it used in insanely large communities (think: top 10 subreddits) where people would just not stop talking (#node.js and #node-dev are relatively quiet) and it still works beautifully. |
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@bnb Was this discussed at the last meeting? Do we need board approval if we need money for this? |
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Based on cost and the fact that we have spun up a discord I'm going to close this. Please feel free to reopen or ask me to reopen if this should still be discussed |
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The discord isn’t necessarily an irc replacement tho - i think this should still be opened. |
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Discord I agree with @ljharb and it should still be considered unless people migrate to Discord and it becomes an official communication channel. |
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(fwiw, if irccloud is unable to provide satisfactory licensing/pricing, then it's fine to close this - i just don't think "because someone made a discord" should be the reason) |
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We (IRCCloud) received an email with questions about pricing options in March, and we replied with answers, but haven't heard back since then. Please do follow up with us at team@irccloud.com with more details on your pricing/licensing requirements/expectations if there's still interest. |
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As I had mentioned earlier, I could help with hosting and maintaining IRC Bouncers or an instance of thelounge on our private servers for collaborators, but I do understand the security complications involved. Also, we could perhaps revisit Slack? They updated pricing for nonprofits (https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833), and would love to help out. Basically:
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I think discussing anything aside from irccloud in this issue is out of
scope. Please open a new issue if you would like to revisit the discussion,
although I do urge you to dig through some of the past discussion as we
have visited this topic multiple times before.
You can absolutely make bouncers available to people as a friendly gesture
but I would be against doing so officially as the foundation.
…On Wed, Jun 20, 2018, 11:40 PM Ujjwal Sharma ***@***.***> wrote:
As I had mentioned earlier, I could help with hosting and maintaining IRC
Bouncers or an instance of thelounge on our private servers for
collaborators, but I do understand the security complications involved.
Also, we could perhaps revisit Slack? They updated pricing for nonprofits (
https://get.slack.help/hc/en-us/articles/204368833), and would love to
help out. Basically:
*Standard Plan*: We offer workspaces with 250 or fewer members a free
upgrade, and an 85% discount for workspaces above that size.
*Plus Plan*: We offer workspaces of any size an 85% discount.
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Closing for now as the conversation has not moved forward in a while... please let me know if I'm mistaken to do so. |
Ref: nodejs/community-committee#11
IRC has been the de facto medium for IM between Collaborators, and between Members and users in general. For reasons outside of this organization's control, IRC clients have gravitated toward the freemium/paid model. Of those there's seem to be one that is best-of-breed, https://www.irccloud.com/about, and seems to be the prefered client for some of the more active participants in the "official" channels (
#node-dev&#node-build).I would like to suggest reaching out to the people behind irccloud and inquire if they are willing to give the org a team-license for free, since we are a not-for-profit org working exclusively on OSS.
Ref: #122
Ref: #278
Ref: #121
Ref: nodejs/evangelism#256
Ref: nodejs/community-committee#26
Ref: nodejs/inclusivity#138
Ref: nodejs/github-bot#85
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