Node.js Foundation Core Technical Committee (CTC) Meeting 2016-03-16

[rvagg]

Time

UTC Wed 16-Mar-2016 20:00:

• San Francisco: Wed 16-Mar-2016 13:00
• New York: Wed 16-Mar-2016 16:00
• Amsterdam: Wed 16-Mar-2016 21:00
• Moscow: Wed 16-Mar-2016 23:00
• Sydney: Thu 17-Mar-2016 07:00
• Tokyo: Thu 17-Mar-2016 05:00

Or in your local time:

• http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Node.js+Foundation+Core%20Technical%20Committee%20(CTC)+Meeting+2016-03-16&iso=20160316T20
• or http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=8pm+UTC%2C+Mar+16%2C+2016+in+local+time

Links

• Minutes Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f4DJIQ8ophrqV3xxeyhyGSZHZa03rozKN2O8WJYlQBo
• Previous Minutes Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ok_O_H0GiduoyRVdMCaH88cU3uRDuOB5WbZ6_-e1U7M

Agenda

Extracted from ctc-agenda labelled issues and pull requests from the nodejs org prior to the meeting.

nodejs/node

• Vote on ES module detection #5648
• Add @mhdawson back to the CTC #5633
• process: add 'warning' event #4782

nodejs/TSC

• Flatten project, scope TSC, big changes to structure. #59

Invited

• @bnoordhuis (CTC)
• @ChALkeR (observer)
• @chrisdickinson (CTC)
• @cjihrig (CTC)
• @evanlucas (observer)
• @Fishrock123 (CTC)
• @indutny (CTC)
• @jasnell (CTC)
• @mhdawson (observer)
• @misterdjules (CTC)
• @mikeal (observer)
• @mscdex (CTC)
• @ofrobots (observer)
• @orangemocha (CTC)
• @piscisaureus (CTC)
• @rvagg (CTC)
• @s3ththompson (observer)
• @shigeki (CTC)
• @srl295 (observer)
• @trevnorris (CTC)
• @Trott (observer)

Notes

The agenda comes from issues labelled with ctc-agenda across all of the repositories in the nodejs org. Please label any additional issues that should be on the agenda before the meeting starts.

Joining the meeting

Uberconference; participants should have the link & numbers, contact me if you don't.

Public participation

We will attempt to stream our Uberconference call straight to YouTube so anyone can listen to it live. If it works, then it should start playing at https://www.youtube.com/nodejs+foundation/live when we turn it on. There's usually a short cat-herding time at the start of the meeting and then occasionally we have some quick private business to attend to before we can start recording & streaming. So be patient and it should show up.

Many of us will be on IRC in #node-dev on Freenode if you'd like to interact, we have a Q/A session scheduled at the end of the meeting if you'd like us to discuss anything in particular. @nodejs/collaborators in particular if there's anything you need from the CTC that's not worth putting on as a separate agenda item, this is a good place for it.

[rvagg]

AMERICANS: Note that the time has changed for you, we are pinned to UTC.

@jasnell you tagged the three items on the agenda (I removed Legal), come prepared with actionable content for us to discuss (I'm going to try and remind everyone who brings agenda items to do this each week so we can get through things efficiently).

@bmeck would you be able to join us this week to discuss the Modules proposal, give us a status update and fill us in on where we need to engage? @nodejs/ctc if you would like to prepare yourself for this then I believe the doc at nodejs/node-eps#3 has been kept up to date to reflect the current state of discussion so it's worth reviewing that. We need to find a way to make this whole topic attackable. I suggest we try it like this:

1. As a first step we need to see if there are any objections to even moving forward here, a legitimate decision from the CTC here is no, or even not yet. Failing to deliver a no doesn't assume a yes of course, it's just an agreement to push forward and see if we can make it work in a way that we can agree is acceptable.
2. Then (assuming we don't get a no) we need to look at the major outstanding item(s) on the EP that need some kind of deadlock breaking by the CTC, the whole pragma/file extension/package.json thing as per Vote on ES module detection #5648 seems to qualify as one of these.
3. Lastly, we need to work through the details of the EP to make sure there's nothing the CTC would like to revisit. The work that's gone in to it is significant and reflects a meeting point of a lot of different stakeholders and technical opinions so we ought not discount that, but that doesn't automatically mean it can sail through as is.
   We also need to make sure that we can involve Collaborators in this process, so perhaps some kind of status summary report would be helpful so they don't all have to dive completely into the epic comment threads.

I'd also like to invite @joshgav, from Microsoft, as an Observer to our meetings. We received a request on this a number of weeks ago but we needed some time to figure out what our policy might be on observers in the meeting so we don't end up with a group that's bigger than we can handle that makes it too difficult to get the CTC focused on the decision-making process. Josh's attendance makes sense due to the importance of Windows to Node.js, the significant investment that Microsoft has made and continues to make to Node, libuv and the Node ecosystem, and the developments with ChakraCore (again, I'm not suggesting an automatic acceptance of the ChakraCore PR, but we've agreed to engage in process that works toward a decision on that).

[cjihrig]

I'll be traveling again today and tomorrow, so I'll miss this meeting.

[jasnell]

@rvagg, +1... Fwiw, I added #4782 back onto the agenda at @Fishrock123's
request for further discussion. If we can resolve via github conversation
then awesome, if not we can definitely discuss further on the call.
On Mar 16, 2016 5:08 AM, "Rod Vagg" notifications@github.com wrote:

AMERICANS: Note that the time has changed for you, we are pinned to UTC.

@jasnell https://github.com/jasnell you tagged the three items on the
agenda (I removed Legal), come prepared with actionable content for us
to discuss (I'm going to try and remind everyone who brings agenda items to
do this each week so we can get through things efficiently).

@bmeck https://github.com/bmeck would you be able to join us this week
to discuss the Modules proposal, give us a status update and fill us in on
where we need to engage? @nodejs/ctc
https://github.com/orgs/nodejs/teams/ctc if you would like to prepare
yourself for this then I believe the doc at nodejs/node-eps#3
nodejs/node-eps#3 has been kept up to date to
reflect the current state of discussion so it's worth reviewing that. We
need to find a way to make this whole topic attackable. I suggest we try it
like thi s:

1. As a first step we need to see if there are any objections to even
   moving forward here, a legitimate decision from the CTC here is no, or
   even not yet. Failing to deliver a no doesn't assume a yes of
   course, it's just an agreement to push forward and see if we can make it
   work in a way that we can agree is acceptable.
2. Then (assuming we don't get a no) we need to look at the major
   outstanding item(s) on the EP that need some kind of deadlock breaking by
   the CTC, the whole pragma/file extension/package.json thing as per Vote on ES module detection #5648
   Vote on ES module detection #5648 seems to qualify as one of
   these.
3. Lastly, we need to work through the details of the EP to make sure
   there's nothing the CTC would like to revisit. The work that's gone in to
   it is significant and reflects a meeting point of a lot of different
   stakeholders and technical opinions so we ought not discount that, but that
   doesn't automatically mean it can sail through as is.
   We also need to make sure that we can involve Collaborators in this
   process, so perhaps some kind of status summary report would be helpful so
   they don't all have to dive completely into the epic comment threads.

I'd also like to invite @joshgav https://github.com/joshgav, from
Microsoft, as an Observer to our meetings. We received a request on this a
number of weeks ago but we needed some time to figure out what our policy
might be on observers in the meeting so we don't end up with a group that's
bigger than we can handle that makes it too difficult to get the CTC
focused on the decision-making process. Josh's attendance makes sense due
to the importance of Windows to Node.js, the significant investment that
Microsoft has made and continues to make to Node, libuv and the Node
ecosystem, and the developments with ChakraCore (again, I'm not suggesting
an automatic acceptance of the ChakraCore PR, but we've agreed to engage in
process that works toward a decision on that).

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#5738 (comment)

[bmeck]

@rvagg I will be there to brief everyone.

[benjamingr]

+1 for the warning event being on the agenda and moving forward.

[jasnell]

Btw, the key issue to be decided for #4782 deals with the way deprecations are handled. See #4782 (comment)

[ChALkeR]

Sorry, I will most likely miss the meeting today.
I was traveling for the past three days and haven't gone home yet.

[Fishrock123]

Livestream viewers (capping out at 7)