Submit applications for virtual card providers

[rndquu]

Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mode for card issuing so we need to find a new virtual cards API provider.

There are the following virtual card providers:

• https://wallester.com/api/card-issuing
• https://karta.io/cards
• https://www.airwallex.com/core-api/issuing
• https://ufitpay.com/virtual-card
• https://www.korahq.com/
• https://union54.com/
• https://flutterwave.com/us/card-issuing
• https://www.galileo-ft.com/products/card-issuing/
• https://checkbook.io/product/payments/virtual-cards/
• https://www.modulrfinance.com/product/cards?hs_preview=vPYdytqs-105603312401
• https://www.rapyd.net/products/issuing/
• https://developer.sprint.paymentology.com/
• https://www.weavr.io/
• https://www.sagacorp.fr/en/virtual-cards-api
• https://www.berkeleypayment.com/features/virtual-cards
• https://www.adyen.com/issuing
• https://www.marqeta.com/platform/virtual-cards

I've checked those APIs and all of them support our case of issuing virtual cards for business needs.

It makes sense to reach to all of them and ask if ubiquity org is eligible to use their services.

We should make sure that (on initial contact):

1. Virtual card service provider would enable live mode for us (i.e. we're compliant with the provider's policy)
2. Virtual cards can be added to digital wallets (like Apple Wallet or Google Wallet)
3. Virtual cards can be used for payments in South Korea (or via digital wallet)

Simply put we should start applying for live mode until we get accepted somewhere.

@sergfeldman Perhaps you could run the applications?

[sergfeldman]

@pavlovcik It’s a pity that Stripe rejected us even with an application from a US company!

@rndquu I appreciate you putting together a list of providers.
Some time ago I contacted the majority of the providers from the list. Overall, I received dozens of rejections, and even more providers just did not respond to me.

If, after reading my report and Stripe's rejection, you think it makes sense to contact other providers, then I can do that.
Using a BVI company significantly reduces the likelihood of cooperation with most providers.
Please clarify whether I can use a US company, or continue to use a BVI company.

[sergfeldman]

I would politely point out that the integration of gift prepaid card APIs does not look like a huge project, so we will be able to start testing real cards soon.

Solutions with gift prepaid cards do not require a set-up fee and allow us to legally reward contributors from almost all countries.
Despite some inconveniences of gift prepaid cards for their users, they also have the advantage of anonymity.
Some providers allow us to top up the account with crypto, which eliminates the need to interact with traditional banks that can block accounts if there are no appropriate documents about the origin of the funds.

After testing and gaining experience with gift prepaid cards, we can turn to the next group of providers.
They can issue cards that are global (for most countries) and crypto-friendly (less risk that we will be blocked).

Of course, there are also negative aspects, primarily the higher cost and a very limited number of such global crypto card providers. I have analyzed several strategies and propose a step-by-step approach that should bring maximum benefits with minimal costs for Ubiquity.

[0x4007]

@sergfeldman hat do you suggest for actionable next steps? You did the most research so you'll probably know best.

Also yes we can try using the USA entity. We can DM for details.

[rndquu]

I would politely point out that the integration of gift prepaid card APIs does not look like a huge project

It's not a huge project but it doesn't align with ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 at all.

Gift prepaid cards have different mechanic:

1. You order a prepaid card for a contributor
2. Contributor has to activate (i.e. redeem) it

So with prepaid cards (in context of ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174) we have to create a new prepaid card for each solved task by a contributor, then show instructions of how to redeem the card, then somehow check if it is redeemed and get the available balance. It doesn't look like a traditional bank card neither from a contributor's view nor from the code we'd need to implement. We won't be able to substitute an implementation under the interface over gift cards API to a virtual cards provider due to different mechanics. I assume all gift card providers work this way.

While with virtual cards API we could make a prototype to be very close to traditional bank cards.

I guess the right strategy right now is:

1. Issue a prepaid gift card via one of the providers and (if possible), add it to digital wallet (Apple/Google/etc...) and make sure it can be used in South Korea
2. Keep pushing virtual card providers and keep applying for live mode until we get accepted

[0x4007]

An interesting hack/workaround (although this depends on each card issuer's API capabilities) would be to "roll up" spendable balances.

For example, you have accrued 555 WXDAI in rewards, and you can cash out to MetaMask or cash out to virtual card.

Virtual card would be a prepaid card that we generate and you can add it to your Apple/Google/Samsung Pay wallet.

Pro: it's pretty much guaranteed that some funds will not be used. This is a source of profit.

Con: its annoying to manually have to cash out every week etc.

---

If its possible to modify a prepaid card's balance then we can simulate debit cards.

[rndquu]

If its possible to modify a prepaid card's balance then we can simulate debit cards.

It's not, at least with https://www.reloadly.com/

For example, you have accrued 555 WXDAI in rewards, and you can cash out to MetaMask or cash out to virtual card.

By "virtual card" here I assume you mean a prepaid gift card. Reloadly limits the max amount of prepaid cards by 100 USD. Update: if we whitelist our ip address for API access then there is no upper limit (@sergfeldman pls confirm).

@sergfeldman says that we can try and create a new visa/mastercard gift card right now via https://dashboard.reloadly.com/. Perhaps we can issue one and try to use it or add to Apple/Google wallet.

[0x4007]

100 USD won't get us very far for demos though. It's really a small amount in the context of bringing a group together to a bar or restaurant in Korea.

It might be better than nothing but I would be quick to drop efforts on it if we find something else that's suitable for the short term.

Update: if we whitelist our ip address for API access then there is no upper limit (@sergfeldman pls confirm).

Let's hope so!

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu Thank you for being ready to test gift prepaid cards.

The standard limit for prepaid Visa and MasterCard cards is 1000 USD. Some providers may change the limit.
I`ve sent a question to Reloadly to find out their maximum limits.

---

Most card providers from the US are not global but can be suitable for testing our flows.
I analyzed card providers from the US who were not ready to cooperate with our BVI entity.
When I get documents on our US entity, I will apply with these details.

First of all, I plan to apply to these providers
https://mercury.com/ is crypto-friendly
https://www.lithic.com/ is focused on developers, they grew from privacy.com

If these steps don't work, there are still other options.

[sergfeldman]

Reloadly replied that their card limits could be up to 1000 USD and some up to 10,000 USD

[rndquu]

Reloadly replied that their card limits could be up to 1000 USD and some up to 10,000 USD

Can we test a real gift card and try to add to Apple/Google wallet?

https://www.lithic.com/ is focused on developers, they grew from privacy.com

Their API supports virtual cards so it would be nice if they approved us

https://mercury.com/ is crypto-friendly

I haven't found any virtual or gift card related API at https://docs.mercury.com/reference/credit-1

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu

Can we test a real gift card and try to add to Apple/Google wallet?

For the test, I topped up the Reloadly account with 25 USD, issued a global virtual MasterCard card with a balance of 1 USD, and added this card to the Google Wallet. I plan to test a purchase from this card when I'm in an offline store.

I haven't found any virtual or gift card related API at https://docs.mercury.com/reference/credit-1

Thanks for analyzing the API methods!

[rndquu]

@sergfeldman

issued a global virtual MasterCard card with a balance of 1 USD, and added this card to the Google Wallet

Did you activate the card somehow? Or it just works "out of the box"?

[molecula451]

try to add it on Github subscription perhap

[sergfeldman]

Following the instructions for gift cards, I activated this Virtual Prepaid MasterCard card on the website https://myprepaidcenter.com/

After a number of attempts to pay with this card using Google Wallet and online, it failed. There is a possibility that the restrictions are caused by banking control in my country.
The exact reason is unknown yet, I wrote a request to Reloadly support.

[sergfeldman]

Reloadly still has not provided information about the root cause of why I could not pay with the issued card.
I will continue to communicate with their support.

@rndquu Can you please analyze the API methods https://epn.net/client-documentation
I will send credentials to dm

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[rndquu]

Reloadly still has not provided information about the root cause of why I could not pay with the issued card. I will continue to communicate with their support.

@rndquu Can you please analyze the API methods https://epn.net/client-documentation I will send credentials to dm

Got it, thank you

API of https://epn.net/client-documentation looks good, we can:

1. Issue virtual cards
2. Get balances
3. Transfer funds from platform account to a card (as far as I understand, at least there is an option for this in their UI dashboard)

I've contacted support of https://epn.net/ and they told that:

1. There is no sandbox mode for API testing (but we can bare with it)
2. There is no upper bound for number of issued cards for verified account (so it scales pretty well)

Overall https://epn.net/ looks like a semi legal service that (almost) perfectly fits our needs.

@sergfeldman Could you try to issue a virtual card and check if it can be added to mobile wallet and can actually be used for real payments?

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[0x4007]

@sergfeldman Could you try to issue a virtual card and check if it can be added to mobile wallet and can actually be used for real payments?

I'm working on it now. https://core.allbridge.io/history/ETH/0x765da464587aad86959080c092166acee0db2b545737a864af9a87b47266d20e

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[0x4007]

Not looking good so far. Will need to contact support because its not showing up the dashboard.

https://tronscan.io/#/address/TRzPm2XZ5EspDYjZuwTAnX2NbTnN9qTU1D

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[0x4007]

At the moment we are not accepting transactions via smart contract, however we will release an update next week and will be able to process your transaction. Now we accept only TRC-20 and you can pay via TRC-20

I don't use Tron but from what I understand I need to make a Tron wallet, transfer money into the Tron wallet, and then transfer to their deposit address.

Trying again, but made an intermediary Tron wallet to accomodate their limitations. https://core.allbridge.io/history/ETH/0xd4bcf2f563b51d292ff4c15f680435f29092d6ccfa0de0358af1b44918fc9c1d

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[0x4007]

This deposit is successful https://tronscan.org/#/transaction/cc5b9e848532937941993be23d28877bd217c27ec14ac8ba4de312fa52da8ac5

It is unclear to me why they let us choose our BINs but I'll pick at random.

looks like a semi legal service

lol

I was able to pay my OpenAI bill of $10 successfully. There's another $10 on there for testing if anybody wants to try.

[rndquu]

@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar protocol by 1 April. Assuming your bandwidth is limited, perhaps we can tag in gitcoindev?

Yes, I'm busy with the Dollar project right now, so it makes sense to ask gitcoindev or someone else who's available to proceed with ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174

Overall ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider, I will update wireframes today for usage of gift cards

The main issue right now, as far as I understand, is that https://github.com/ubiquibot/comment-incentives doesn't tally up rewards but just prints permits on issue close. We need to add some new param like "permit-mode" which could be set to "print-immediately" or "tally-up" so that when ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 is ready we could simply switch from "print-immediately" to the "tally-up" mode.

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu

What county of residence did you set for the test user? US?

I put the South Korean residence for the test card.

Where exactly? Could you provide the URL?

The balance of the MasterCard gift cards that we create on Reloadly can be checked on the same website where a user activates the MasterCard gift cards https://myprepaidcenter.com/
Also, there are third-party mobile apps for checking the balance of gift cards, but I did not test them.

By "non-reloadable" you mean that cards can not be replenished again, right?

Yes. This is one of the main problems of gift prepaid cards - it is impossible to replenish them after creation.

[sergfeldman]

@rndquu

Overall ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider

It's cool that you design user flows. We need to test our flows and collect feedback from contributors who will receive rewards with cards.

From my point of view, the simpler and more automated the process, the better.
The "Claim" step is common in Web3, but not common for cards.

A simple flow for receiving rewards with cards could be like this:

• When a contributor starts a task and wants to receive a reward with a gift card, he indicates his email once.
• When the task is successfully completed, the gift card activation code is automatically sent to his email.
  And no more steps.

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[0x4007]

@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar protocol by 1 April. Assuming your bandwidth is limited, perhaps we can tag in gitcoindev?

Yes, I'm busy with the Dollar project right now, so it makes sense to ask gitcoindev or someone else who's available to proceed with ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174

Overall ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 should be totally revamped for usage of gift cards since I initially thought that we'd finally find some virtual cards provider, I will update wireframes today for usage of gift cards

The main issue right now, as far as I understand, is that https://github.com/ubiquibot/comment-incentives doesn't tally up rewards but just prints permits on issue close. We need to add some new param like "permit-mode" which could be set to "print-immediately" or "tally-up" so that when ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi#174 is ready we could simply switch from "print-immediately" to the "tally-up" mode.

Another approach that mate be less burdensome for our accounting/backend setup could be a deposit contract that gives us custody of the depositor's Ubiquity Dollars and we can top up their virtual cards.

It might be nice to let the dust settle from the migration to the new bot architecture with separated backends.

Also I don't think it makes sense to invest in the old codebase if FernandVEYRIER is already mostly done with the new version of the conversation incentives.

It's not clear to me how far we are from migrating to the new bot architecture though.

When the task is successfully completed, the gift card activation code is automatically sent to his email.
And no more steps.

No we definitely need rolled up balances. Tiny rewards on separate cards seems like horrible UX

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[rndquu]

From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exchange and cannot be exchanged for cash in part or full and is valid for a single transaction only"

Can we check whether gift cards can be used for multiple purchases?

[0x4007]

From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exchange and cannot be exchanged for cash in part or full and is valid for a single transaction only"

Can we check whether gift cards can be used for multiple purchases?

We successfully ran a card twice via Apple Pay. I think that Reloadly definitely checks out for our initial needs.

If we can exceed the $1000 limit somehow I would be pretty happy with the service for our current scope. At least until we find a suitable bank sponsorship on our terms. Then we can offer a superior UX with a single reloadable card per user.

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[sergfeldman]

For a test, I added the IP to the whitelisted on the Reloadly. Prepaid gift cards in USD now have a limit of up to 1000 USD. I have not yet found prepaid gift cards with a limit of more than 1000 GBP.

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[sergfeldman]

@0x4007 This task is related to

• Bounty proposal: integrate Reloadly API #34

The project of the cards integration is completed, and this bounty has actually been completed because we found a suitable provider.

In the scope of this particular task, additional research, account creation and testing of new providers indicated in the comments were carried out.
Please, clarify how to receive payment for this bounty.

[ubiquibot]

@sergfeldman the deadline is at 2024-07-01T18:02:41.780Z

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[ubiquibot]

+ Evaluating results. Please wait...

[ubiquity-os-main]

[ 1200 WXDAI ]

@sergfeldman

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@0x4007

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@rndquu

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Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mode for…	18 content: p: count: 180 score: 1 wordValue: 0.1 formattingMultiplier: 1	-	-
It's not a huge project but it doesn't align with https://github…	41.2 content: p: count: 206 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.4	16.48
It's not, at least with https://www.reloadly.com/ By "virtual ca…	16 content: p: count: 80 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.2	3.2
Can we test a real gift card and try to add to Apple/Google wall…	8 content: p: count: 40 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.4	3.2
@sergfeldman Did you activate the card somehow? Or it just work…	3 content: p: count: 15 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.1	0.3
Got it, thank you API of https://epn.net/client-documentation lo…	25.6 content: p: count: 128 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.8	20.48
Each BIN is a separate bank and country although all of the ones…	7.4 content: p: count: 37 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.1	0.74
I've checked lithic's docs at https://docs.lithic.com/reference/…	15 content: p: count: 75 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.3	4.5
Yes ok	0.4 content: p: count: 2 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.7	0.28
We haven't yet found a gift card provider with working cards in …	5.4 content: p: count: 27 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.2	1.08
As far as I understand a real payment via reloadly [didn't work]…	2.8 content: p: count: 12 score: 1 a: count: 2 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.5	1.4
@sergfeldman What county of residence did you set for the test …	6.4 content: p: count: 32 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.2	1.28
Yes, I'm busy with the Dollar project right now, so it makes sen…	23.2 content: p: count: 115 score: 1 a: count: 1 score: 1 wordValue: 0.2 formattingMultiplier: 1	0.4	9.28
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@molecula451

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[ubiquibot]

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@0x4007

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@sergfeldman hat do you suggest for actionable next steps? You d...	3.4	-	3.4
An interesting hack/workaround (although this depends on each ca...	12.2 hr: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	12.2
100 USD won't get us very far for demos though. It's really a sm...	6.4	-	6.4
> @sergfeldman Could you try to issue a virtual card and chec...	1.3	-	1.3
Not looking good so far. Will need to contact support because it...	4.1	-	4.1
> At the moment we are not accepting transactions via smart c...	4.9	-	4.9
This deposit is successful https://tronscan.org/#/transaction/cc...	12.3	-	12.3
![image](https://github.com/ubiquity/card-issuance/assets/497567...	1.8	-	1.8
I can try signing up for lithic > Allow your cardholders t...	2.4 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 2	-	2.4
It will take a little while to pass compliance probably (they ha...	7.6 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 5 hr: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	7.6
I am working on opening up a USA Wyoming LLC for all the card re...	5.1	-	5.1
Perplexity didn't yield an answer on if Reloadly is supported by...	6.2 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	6.2
I have a production key but it's directly linked to my bank acco...	13.7	-	13.7
> Okay so I'll need to start that test. I'll look into it on ...	2.1	-	2.1
Bad news: I tried creating a card and it says "account under rev...	9.2	-	9.2
It's unclear if we should axe this project for 2024 because gett...	5.4	-	5.4
> @pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with ...	1.6	-	1.6
> Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mod...	37.9 li: count: 22 score: "22" words: 0	-	37.9
@rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Dollar pr...	2.6	-	2.6
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@sergfeldman

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@pavlovcik It’s a pity that Stripe rejected us even with an appl...	- a: count: 1 score: "0" words: 1	-	-
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@rndquu Thank you for being ready to test gift prepaid cards. ...	- hr: count: 1 score: "0" words: 0	-	-
Reloadly replied that their card limits could be up to 1000 USD ...	-	-	-
@rndquu >Can we test a real gift card and try to add to A...	-	-	-
Following the instructions for gift cards, I activated this Virt...	-	-	-
Reloadly still has not provided information about the root cause...	-	-	-
> I am working on opening up a USA Wyoming LLC for all the ca...	-	-	-
> Reloadly still has not provided information about the root ...	-	-	-
> Perplexity didn't yield an answer on if Reloadly is support...	-	-	-
@pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with gift ...	-	-	-
>I was able to pay my OpenAI bill of $10 successfully. There'...	-	-	-
We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for ...	- li: count: 8 score: "0" words: 82	-	-
@rndquu >What county of residence did you set for the tes...	-	-	-
@rndquu >Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/iss...	- li: count: 2 score: "0" words: 21	-	-
For a test, I added the IP to the whitelisted on the Reloadly. P...	-	-	-
@0x4007 This task is related to - https://github.com/ubiquity/...	- li: count: 1 score: "0" words: 8	-	-
@pavlovcik It’s a pity that Stripe rejected us even with an appl...	11.8 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 1	-	11.8
I would politely point out that the integration of gift prepaid ...	18.9	-	18.9
@rndquu Thank you for being ready to test gift prepaid cards. ...	14 hr: count: 1 score: "1" words: 0	-	14
Reloadly replied that their card limits could be up to 1000 USD ...	1.9	-	1.9
@rndquu >Can we test a real gift card and try to add to A...	5.5	-	5.5
Following the instructions for gift cards, I activated this Virt...	6.4	-	6.4
Reloadly still has not provided information about the root cause...	4.7	-	4.7
> I am working on opening up a USA Wyoming LLC for all the ca...	8.3	-	8.3
> Reloadly still has not provided information about the root ...	8.4	-	8.4
> Perplexity didn't yield an answer on if Reloadly is support...	4.5	-	4.5
@pavlovcik Can we ask @diamondnegroni to test payment with gift ...	2.9	-	2.9
>I was able to pay my OpenAI bill of $10 successfully. There'...	2.4	-	2.4
We managed to issue a card to a non-existent person and pay for ...	32.1 li: count: 8 score: "8" words: 82	-	32.1
@rndquu >What county of residence did you set for the tes...	8.1	-	8.1
@rndquu >Overall https://github.com/ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi/iss...	12.6 li: count: 2 score: "2" words: 21	-	12.6
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@molecula451

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@rndquu

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Conversation Incentives

Comment	Formatting	Relevance	Reward
Stripe has rejected our application for enabling a live mode for...	69.6 li: count: 20 score: "20" words: 149	1	69.6
> I would politely point out that the integration of gift pre...	49.4 li: count: 4 score: "4" words: 62	-	49.4
> If its possible to modify a prepaid card's balance then we ...	17.8	-	17.8
> Reloadly replied that their card limits could be up to 1000...	9.6	-	9.6
@sergfeldman > issued a global virtual MasterCard card wi...	3	-	3
> Reloadly still has not provided information about the root ...	31.4 li: count: 5 score: "5" words: 62	-	31.4
> It is unclear to me why they let us choose our BINs but I'l...	7.4	-	7.4
> It will take a little while to pass compliance probably (th...	18 code: count: 1 score: "1" words: 5	-	18
> But according to the dashboard we should be able to test in...	0.4	-	0.4
> I think we're going to need to launch with gift cards after...	5.8	-	5.8
> Is reloadly the only viable option right now? As far as ...	3.6 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 3	-	3.6
@sergfeldman > We managed to issue a card to a non-existe...	6.6	-	6.6
> @rndquu has to focus on the deployment of the Ubiquity Doll...	31.6 a: count: 1 score: "1" words: 1	-	31.6
From reloadly dashboard UI: "eGift voucher is non-refundable/exc...	6.8	-	6.8

[ubiquibot]

! action has an uncaught error

[sergfeldman]

@0x4007 Hey, it is not enough funds to claim rewards for this task
ubiquity/pay.ubq.fi@bf5ca41

[0x4007]

I just topped up the wallet.