Minutes 01 June 2017
Date: 1 June 2017
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Present: Dave Cramer, George Kerscher, Avneesh Singh, Wolfgang Schindler, Rachel Comerford, Rick Johnson, Mira Bossowska, teytag, Romain Deltour, Mike Baker, Matt Garrish, Luc Audrain, Laurent Le Meur, Charles LaPierre, Andrew Gribben, Garth Conroy, Naomi Kennedy, Julian Calderazi, Jean Kaplansky, Laura Brady, jrissler, Ruth Tait
Regrets:
Guests:
Chair: Dave Cramer
Scribe(s): Rachel Comerford
- 1. What's happening in EPUBland
- 2. education task force
- 3. accessibility - we want to work on a new version of document and need a driver
Dave Cramer: Any volunteers to scribe?
Dave Cramer: echo ... echo ... echo ...
Laura Brady: Darnit, I can't hear anything via computer connection. Does anybody now how to troubleshoot it?
Dave Cramer: Sorry, Laura, I don't have any great ideas. Maybe just try again?
Dave Cramer we'll start with a brief update and then discuss who will lead the task forces
Dave Cramer then we'll move to next steps and rendering
Dave Cramer: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/
Dave Cramer I have been moving IDPF documentation to the w3c space
Dave Cramer: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/education/epub-education.html
Dave Cramer including introductions to the various groups. Converting documents from google.docs, etc.
Dave Cramer one of the larger goals for this group is to make all of this information easier to find, read, and understand. We welcome ideas and volunteers to make these specs more understandable and findable. We have a good start thanks to matt
Jean Kaplansky: dauwhe: make stuff easy to find and easy to read!
George Kerscher: if this group can take care of technical stuff, the publsihing group can take care of the marketing side
Dave Cramer the publishing group can help us message these resources to the larger world
Dave Cramer reminder face to face meeting June 22nd and June 23rd in NYC
Dave Cramer reminder TPAC meeting in November in the san Francisco area, including publishing/w3c summit: program in process
Dave Cramer possible community group meeting during unconference on Wednesday at TPAC
Dave Cramer a few issues have made their way to the github repository - please file ideas, complaints, corrections etc in this space
Dave Cramer at some point we'll need analyze the value of the various elements that are being moved
Dave Cramer part of the work will be in making this content more understandable
Naomi Kennedy: re-reviewing spec for internal needs, will also document issues with links/content confusion/etc
Dave Cramer a lot of work has been done for edupub, which became epub for education
Dave Cramer with 3.1 and the merge complete, it's time to revisit
Rick Johnson: the last draft of edupub/epub for education was from a year ago last feb. It was put on hold to finish 3.1. Some elements were accomodated in 3.1, including accessibility.
Dave Cramer: Rick's proposal: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2017May/0001.html
Rick Johnson: My proposal is essentially the things that make sense for alignment with the community group should remain here; for elements that relate to other teams, we should have a sub-working group that relates for other groups in w3c
Rick Johnson: we also have elements that more directly relate to work from the IMS groups
Dave Cramer: Matt's proposal: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishingbg/2017May/0072.html
Dave Cramer there is also a proposal from matt that given the LTI integration, so of this can be moved to IMS while others can be positioned as authoring guidelines
Jean Kaplansky: publishing channel for the task force for epub for education. Do we have a separate communication channel for that? My intent is to continue to participate. McGraw Hill remains heavily involved in IMS.
Dave Cramer we can come up with a convention in subject lines for identifying task forces
Mike Baker: HMH thinks epub for education is an important element to continue to progress. There is a perception that epub for educ is being deprecated and we want to make sure that does not happen.
Mike Baker: Is there a way that we can (because epub for educ is profile based) that we can encourage reading systems to follow epub for education specs as well as integration with IMS standards ensured
Jean Kaplansky: we have a vested interest that epub for education remains epub - it shoud nt become an independent spec
Charles LaPierre: I think for epub with education, accessibility wise, there is language in there about using the accessibility guidelines. We should change that to a must
Mike Baker: I think epub for education should be epub - we should avoid fragmenting. In terms of interoperability, this won't impact the package. How does this tie into epub4
Jean Kaplansky: +1 Rick. Thank you!
Rick Johnson: about deprecation - my proposal states that the edupub spec is out of synch with the epub3.1. At some point we want to deprecate the current version to align a new version with the epub spec
Mike Baker: +1 Rick.
Jean Kaplansky: following up what was mentioned about the anotation spec and distributed object spec. Distributed obj is under the perview of IDPF BG
Jean Kaplansky: what ever happens with annotations has to align with whatever the working group is doing
Dave Cramer: CSS has had drafts in process for fifteen years
Jean Kaplansky: for LTI - it wuld behoove us to spearate our approval cycles from IMS (IMS cycles are much longer than IDPFs were). Some of this will be realigned. What we can focus on for education is alignment for 3.1, accessibility, and metadata requirements
Rick Johnson: fair point @Jean_K
Mike Baker: +1 Jean. Thanks.
Mike Baker: The deprecation term was something I heard communicated, not something I agreed with and was looking for clarification.
George Kerscher: everything Jean just said and also - the annotations w3c working group should be liaised with - within the publishing group, would epub for education be in scope for that task force - it might increase participation
Dave Cramer that makes sense to me
Dave Cramer this task force will have some broad responsibilities, including elements like distributable elements (and maybe annotations)
Dave Cramer who wants to take the lead
jrissler: Jean: IMS is working to improve cycles (on-going conversations) - it may be useful to have the conversation with IMS and see if theres a way to more align those in the future
Mira: I would like to work on this too
grib: As would I
Mike Baker: I want to be part of also.
Jean Kaplansky: Gonna speak for Mira and I, that we will help Rachel. :)
Mike Baker: I don't have the bandwidth to lead, but will be a willing participant.
Dave Cramer Rachel will coordinate, core group is Jean, Mira, Mike, and Andrew
Julian Calderazi: nop
Mike Baker: +1
George Kerscher: Go Rachel you will have our support.
Avneesh: immediate priority is updating the specification, including techniques. The other thing is ISO standardization.
Avneesh: We need to update techniques, we are working on it right now, then some clarifications are required in specifications. We are also working on synchronizing accessibility metadata of schema.org with ONIX. We also wrapped up media overlays and multiple renditions in accessibility specs 1.0 due to short time and would like to focus on them.
Avneesh: An immediate priority is that the business group needs to make a decision about ISO, Makoto would like to bring this to ISO meeting on June 19.
Jean Kaplansky: "we should really do this integration of the accessibility specification in epub" - but we need to know if a publisher is integrating the metadata into their content. Are people using EPUB accessibility specification.
Jean Kaplansky: MHE has internal advocates for integrating EPUB Accessibility 1.0
Naomi Kennedy: We are also in the process of implementing as much of the accessibility spec as we currently can.
laudrain: we have implemented in France, we have a launch meeting organized for 6/15 to explain the goals of the document
laudrain: this task force should be aware of the work being done in France and this is important to implement, even if reading systems are not yet implementing
Jean Kaplansky: this is great news - I haven't heard anyone in the community talking about this until now
Luc Audrain: we haven't communicated officially because we were cautious about how suppliers would respond in to the RFP
Charles LaPierre: Benetech has been piloting a certification program that tests against 3.1 and accessibility 1.0 - we're seeing the metadata being put in as well as the appropriate features. As far as reading systems go (like Readium) we are working with them to make sure these elements havea place
Charles LaPierre: some universities are requiring wcag 2.0 AA compliance and 3rd party certification
Charles LaPierre: University of Phoenix and Texas
Rick Johnson: from VS and Ingram - we work with education and trade pubs and we know they won't all do this
Rick Johnson: we are putting in place a system to support extracting metadata from the file and comparing to the external metadata delivery and establishing the parent
Mike Baker: we're applying accessibility changes at the moment, we know not all reading systems support it but we also have a WCAG 2.0 AA requirement
Avneesh Singh: Some specifics, regarding reading systems, epubtest.org is largely aligned with the 1.0 A11y standard. We have tests for various features, tests for essential accessibility, test for magnification, for Media Overlays. There are reading systems that are scoring high on different set of features. And to facilitate adoption of the standard, DAISY Consortium is working on an infrastructure. We are developing accessibility checking tool, and international network of certifying agencies, right now it has started with 2 DAISY members Benetech and RNIB.
Dave Cramer: Julian: Just type q-
Julian Calderazi: done, tks
Mike Baker: I would like to participate in any working group on accessibility
George Kerscher: Avneesh, are you in a position to lead the task force
Avneesh Singh: yes
Jean Kaplansky: Jean's in the same position with the a11y task force as the EPUB for Education task force... Can't lead, but will follow and try to keep moving.
Charles LaPierre: I will be a part of this Accessibility TF
George Kerscher: Discovery of accessible and conforming EPUB is essential
Rick Johnson: +1 to sync between accessibility metadata expressions
Julian Calderazi: Dave, add me to accesibility pls
Charles LaPierre: +1 Charles to A11Y TF
Laura Brady: +! to a11y task force pls
Laura Brady: Or +1 (jeez)
Jean Kaplansky: Last comment - we need to schedule more regular CG calls!