Skip to content
New issue

Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.

By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.

Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account

Table 1-01-01, Revision of winds variables #417

Closed
JohnEyre opened this issue Jun 13, 2022 · 35 comments · Fixed by #482
Closed

Table 1-01-01, Revision of winds variables #417

JohnEyre opened this issue Jun 13, 2022 · 35 comments · Fixed by #482
Assignees
Milestone

Comments

@JohnEyre
Copy link
Collaborator

JohnEyre commented Jun 13, 2022

Proposal Summary

The wind variables in WMDR - 12005, 12006, 310, 307 - are inconsistent and incomplete. They should be revised to include:

  • wind specified in speed and direction or in components,
  • wind at a single level or a vector of levels,
  • wind at specified heights or pressures, or at specified distances from reference levels,
  • more complete definition of wind direction - an angle measured clockwise from North.

Summary and Purpose

Update and add variables to adequately support wind measurements.

Proposal

Update the existing wind variables and add new ones as necessary

Current Observed Variable Measurand Code

Notation Name Description
12005 Horizontal wind direction at specified distance from reference surface the direction of Horizontal wind direction at specified distance from reference surface
12006 Horizontal Wind Speed Horizontal wind speed at specified distance from reference surface
New u (u component of horizontal wind vector)
New v (v component of horizontal wind vector)
307 Wind (Z component vertical) Z component of wind vector (horizontal and vertical profile)

Recommend removing 310 as it is not meaningful without definition of XY coordinates.

Reason

[your reasoning why the proposal resolves the issue]

Stakeholder(s)

ET-UAT
ET-SSU

Consultations

[include names and emails or handles of individuals or groups that reviewed the proposal]

Context

[include references to manuals or guides that are reviewed to ensure alignment, if proposal differs then document how and why]

Expected Impact of Change

[enter LOW (for editorial changes to existing codes), MEDIUM (for new codes) or HIGH (for deprecated and superseded codes]

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/Meeting-2022.09.22 notes:

  • team agrees to follow up 
  • @gaochen-larc will work on this
  • @amilan17 reach out to ET-Upper Air Measurements?

@amilan17 amilan17 added this to the FT2023-1 milestone Sep 22, 2022
@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

I think we need five basic variables: wind direction, wind speed, u, v, and w. The vertical profile of wind can be described using attributes in the upcoming WMDR 2.0. The existing codes, i.e., 12005, 12006, 310, and 307, look confusing to me. Would like to see if and how they have been used. However, it would be rather difficult to update the description with additional information. Looking for comments and suggestions!

@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

gaochen-larc commented Oct 5, 2022

Wind Speed: commonly refer to the speed of horizontal wind, a ratio of the distance covered by the air to the time taken to cover it. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

Wind Direction: the direction of horizontal wind expressed in degrees at which the wind originates, i.e., 0° for north or northerly wind, 90° for east or easterly wind, 180° (or -180°) degree for south or southerly wind, and 270° (or -90°) for west or westerly wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

u: east-west component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for eastward wind or west wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

v: north-south component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for northward wind or south wind . This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates.

w: vertical component of the 3-D wind vector. positive value for upward wind, This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates.

Looking comments and suggestions!

@mshook2012
Copy link

A few follow-up thoughts on @gaochen-larc's comments:

  • The definition of wind speed should specify that it refers to the horizontal direction only (similar to the current 12006), i.e., sqrt(u^2 + v^2). I would suggest modifying it to "Ratio of the horizontal distance covered by air..."
  • The terms used for directional winds here are somewhat confusing (e.g., for "positive value for eastward wind or west wind", it's not very clear that those are the same thing). I recommend replacing all references to directional winds with a more explicit from/to terminology (i.e., "positive value for wind blowing from west to east").
  • For definitions of wind in a meteorological context, it might make sense to include a definition for the vertical velocity variable ω = dp/dt in addition to w = dz/dt.
  • It may be worth noting that in most cases, wind direction is measured as clockwise from TRUE (geographic) north. However, there are situations in which wind direction is reported with respect to MAGNETIC north (e.g., for aviation purposes; see this FAA publication, Section 4-3-6a).

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Oct 6, 2022

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2022.10.06-TT-WIGOSMD meeting notes:

Comment from Michael Shoot (NASA) above; in progress

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Oct 6, 2022

Sent email to secretariat that supports ET-UAM to find a volunteer to review.

@joergklausen
Copy link
Contributor

@amilan17 Could you update the issue to reflect the discussion, so that we see what is specifically proposed?

@jrb08j
Copy link

jrb08j commented Nov 2, 2022

Wind Speed: commonly refer to the speed of horizontal wind, a ratio of the distance covered by the air to the time taken to cover it. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

Wind Direction: the direction of horizontal wind expressed in degrees at which the wind originates, i.e., 0° for north or northerly wind, 90° for east or easterly wind, 180° (or -180°) degree for south or southerly wind, and 270° (or -90°) for west or westerly wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

u: east-west component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for eastward wind or west wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates

v: north-south component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for northward wind or south wind . This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates.

w: vertical component of the 3-D wind vector. positive value for upward wind, This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates.

Looking comments and suggestions!

Hi everyone,

Gao, I've included my comments below. Brackets alone are comments. Bracketed italicized and bold words/phrases are my suggested edits.

Thanks all,
Ryan

Wind Speed: commonly refers to the speed of horizontal wind, a ratio of the [horizontal] distance covered by the air to the time taken to cover it [that distance]. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at a given location and time [instantaneous] or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates. [I like that you’ve included the difference between instantaneous vs averaged/down-sampled here, most users aren’t familiar with the time averaged wind measurements].

Wind Direction: the direction of horizontal wind expressed in degrees at which the wind originates, i.e., 0° for north or northerly wind, 90° for east or easterly wind, 180° (or -180°) degree for south or southerly wind, and 270° (or -90°) for west or westerly wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function spatio-temporal coordinates [I like that you’ve defined the coordinate system here- oceanography uses the reverse convention, so it is important that it be well defined].

u: east-west component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for eastward wind or west wind. [This seems confusing – consider “positive value for eastward moving or west-to-east wind"]. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.

v: north-south component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for northward wind or south wind. [This seems confusing – consider “positive value for northward moving or south-to-north wind"]. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.

w: vertical component of the 3-D wind vector. positive value for upward wind, This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates. [w has a meteorological definition of dz/dt; may be worth also including a definition for omega as well for completeness].

@amilan17 amilan17 changed the title Revision of winds variables Table 1-01-01, Revision of winds variables Nov 16, 2022
@JREyre
Copy link

JREyre commented Nov 23, 2022

@gaochen-larc
Hi Gao,
We have several comments on your proposal. They look good to me with one exception: I would include dp/dt as an option for vertical velocity, as it does not have units of distance per time.
I suggest it would be now be best if you could update your proposal based on these comments and then we could propose it for acceptance.
The remaining issue would then be what to do with the existing codes: 12005, 12006, 310, 307. Do we replace them or add to them?

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Dec 8, 2022

@JREyre
Copy link

JREyre commented Dec 9, 2022

Hi Goa,
Error in my last message - should have said "I would NOT include dp/dt ...".

@amilan17 amilan17 modified the milestones: FT2023-1, FT2023-2 Jan 12, 2023
@amilan17
Copy link
Member

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.01.12-TT-WIGOSMD notes:
still under discussion, moved to next FT cycle

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Feb 16, 2023

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.02.16-TT-WIGOSMD notes:

Gao will update the proposal summary with details.

@joergklausen
Copy link
Contributor

The principal conventionally observed quantities are

  • horizontal wind direction, with dimension of degrees
  • horizontal wind speed/velocity, with dimension of length per time
  • vertical wind speed/velocity, with dimension of length per time
    These can be observed separately, or as vector components u, v, and w. To reflect this, I tend to recommend the following observed quantities in addition to the 3 mentioned above, even though this creates some redundancy:
  • 2D wind vector, with dimension of length per time in 2D polar coordinates
  • 3D wind vector, with dimension of length per time in 2D polar coordinates

@JREyre
Copy link

JREyre commented Mar 17, 2023

@gaochen-larc @joergklausen @amilan17
The Amendment above looks good.
Concerning Joerg's comment, it is important not to conflate speed and velocity, because one is a scalar and the other a vector (velocity includes speed and direction). However, the Amendment does not mention velocity, which is fine.

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023-03-17-TT-WIGOSMD notes:
@gaochen-larc add notations to issue summary; change u, v and w to something with a little more meaning; @amilan17 will post copy of email from ET-UAM experts.

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Apr 21, 2023

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.04.21-TT-WIGOSMD notes:
Gao updated the details in the proposal (above) and will update the branch.

@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

Branch updated

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented May 4, 2023

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.05.04-TT-WIGOSMD/notes:
Gao will add "[zonal]" the definitions and replace the existing codes with the new content.

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.06.15-TT-WIGOSMD notes:

Lara reviewed the branch and noted that the issue summary is different than the branch (see comment above); there was a discussion about "north" vs "true north"; DECISION: remove units from horizontal wind direction; @gaochen-larc update branch, issue summary and create PR;

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

Should 310 be superseded by another code? If not, then I recommend changing the status to "Retired". 

310,"\Atmosphere\Wind\Upper wind (X, Y components, horizontal)",,,"Upper wind (X, Y components, horizontal)",Horizontal component of wind as a vector in an orthogonal coordinate system.

@amilan17 amilan17 linked a pull request Jun 30, 2023 that will close this issue
@joergklausen
Copy link
Contributor

retired=deprecated? Yes, I believe so.

@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

Agree

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Jun 30, 2023

https://github.com/wmo-im/tt-wigosmd/wiki/2023.06.30-TT-WIGOSMD notes:

validated; code 310 will be retired;

amilan17 added a commit that referenced this issue Aug 10, 2023
…evision-of-winds-variables

#417 table 1 01 01 revision of winds variables
@amilan17 amilan17 modified the milestones: FT2023-2, FT2024-1 Nov 7, 2023
@amilan17
Copy link
Member

amilan17 commented Nov 7, 2023

Publication of these amendments is on hold pending further discussions

@amilan17
Copy link
Member

@JREyre
Copy link

JREyre commented Feb 16, 2024

@gaochen-larc @joergklausen @amilan17
I've checked this again, and I have nothing to add, except that I don't think it necessary to specify "true north". "north" is naturally interpreted as true (geographic) north. If it were magnetic north, then this would need to be specified.

@joergklausen
Copy link
Contributor

Re 12005: Given the comment further up by @mshook2012, I don't think it hurts to eliminate possible ambiguity about what 'north' is meant. Furthermore, the condition of windspeed > 0 is not reflected, either. So I would expand by saying

"The direction of horizontal wind at which the wind originates expressed in degrees, i.e., 0 deg for true north or northerly wind, 90 deg for east or easterly wind, 180 deg (or -180 deg) degree for south or southerly wind, and 270 deg (or -90 deg) for west or westerly wind. Scalar quantity to represent a value at a given location and an instantaneous time, or average over spatio-temporal extent, or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates. Note: wind direction is not defined for zero wind speed."

BTW (arrrgh) I initially looked at the proposal at the top to put @JohnEyre 's comments into perspective. Alas, this has not been updated in a long time. @amilan17 We need to review how to deal with changes to the initial proposal during its evolution. The only solution I see, really, is

  1. Remove the "Amendment Details" from the top.
  2. Paste an initial version as the first comment.
  3. Paste updated versions of these Amendment Details regularly here in the comment trail, clearly labeled as "Amendment Details (working version"). This is the responsibility of the assigned member of the team (@gaochen-larc in this case).
  4. Close the discussion and "freeze" the issue once a conclusion is reached, and only then add the final version at the top.

@meulenvd
Copy link

@gaochen-larc @joergklausen @amilan17 I've checked this again, and I have nothing to add, except that I don't think it necessary to specify "true north". "north" is naturally interpreted as true (geographic) north. If it were magnetic north, then this would need to be specified.

@joergklausen @amilan17 @JREyre
The use of True North came from the old Technical Regulations (WMO-No. 49, Vol I). This was to avoid confusion in the Aeronautical part were wind direction w/r Magnetic North was stated (but only for services at the aerodromes). After updates True was not used anymore, neither in the Manual to the WIGOS. In WMO-No. 8 (the GIMO), Vol I,par. 5.1.2 (units and scales), Wind direction is defined as the direction from which the wind blows, and is measured clockwise
from geographical north, namely, true north (based on WGS-84 and its EGM96). Regulatory material refer to this WMO-No. 8 if relevant. So true is used to avoid confusion with magnetic north, but in practice it is not so relevant, because the definition is clear.

Other definitions, moved from the regulatory material to GIMO, which might be relevant here are:

  • “Calm” should be reported when the average wind speed is less than or equal to 0.2 m/s (< 1 kt). The direction in this case is coded as 00.
  • Wind direction at stations within 1° of the North Pole or 1° of the South Pole should be measured so that the azimuth ring should be aligned with its zero coinciding with the Greenwich 0° meridian.

@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

gaochen-larc commented Feb 26, 2024

Amendment Details (working version)

Notation Name Description
12005 Horizontal Wind Direction the direction of horizontal wind expressed in degrees at which the wind originates. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and an instantaneous time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates. Note: 1) Wind direction is coded as 00 under "Calm” conditions at which the average wind speed is less than or equal to 0.2 m/s (< 1 kt). The direction in this case is coded as 00; 2) Wind direction at stations within 1° of the North Pole or 1° of the South Pole should be measured so that the azimuth ring should be aligned with its zero coinciding with the Greenwich 0° meridian.
12006 Horizontal Wind Speed commonly refers to the speed of horizontal wind, a ratio of the horizontal distance covered by the air to the time taken to cover that distance. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at a given location and an instantaneous time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.
New u (u component of horizontal wind vector) east-west component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for eastward moving or west-to-east wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and an instantaneous time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.
New v (v component of horizontal wind vector) north-south component of the horizontal wind vector, positive value for northward moving or south-to-north wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and an instantaneous time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.
307 w (vertical component of wind vector) vertical component of the 3-D wind vector. positive value for upward wind. This scalar quantity can be used to represent a value at given location and an instantaneous time or average over spatio-temporal extent or values as a function of spatio-temporal coordinates.

@gaochen-larc
Copy link
Contributor

@meulenvd: Thank you!

amilan17 added a commit that referenced this issue Mar 4, 2024
#522)

* issue #417, updated to match this comment #417 (comment)

* Github Action Commit

---------

Co-authored-by: amilan17 <amilan17@users.noreply.github.com>
@amilan17 amilan17 closed this as completed Mar 4, 2024
amilan17 added a commit that referenced this issue May 17, 2024
* issue #506, manual update, editorial

* issue #417, updated to match this comment https://github.com/wmo-im/w… (#522)

* issue #417, updated to match this comment #417 (comment)

* Github Action Commit

---------

Co-authored-by: amilan17 <amilan17@users.noreply.github.com>

* New 499 table 5 02 01 add descriptions (#521)

#499 
* commit ttl files that will be overwritten

* commit files that will be overwritten

* update new branch #499

* Github Action Commit

---------

Co-authored-by: amilan17 <amilan17@users.noreply.github.com>

* Update 1-01-01.csv (#519)

#502 
* Update 1-01-01.csv

notation 646: corrected ammonium from ammonia.

* Github Action Commit

---------

Co-authored-by: joergklausen <joergklausen@users.noreply.github.com>

* Github Action Commit

---------

Co-authored-by: amilan17 <amilan17@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: Jörg Klausen <34302947+joergklausen@users.noreply.github.com>
Co-authored-by: joergklausen <joergklausen@users.noreply.github.com>
@amilan17 amilan17 moved this to Issue is ready for FT approval procedure in Codelist Amendments for WMDR Aug 22, 2024
Sign up for free to join this conversation on GitHub. Already have an account? Sign in to comment