Dining Room Veranda

[nelsonic]

@iteles iSent these to you via email so you can just forward them to the relevant people if you feel they reflect your idea for the veranda. If not, please sit with me so we can re-do them. thanks.

[iteles]

It reflects it exactly. thanks.

[nelsonic]

I don't think it does. I don't think it's "right" or "perfect" at all.
I wish you had the time to sit down with me and give your input ... 😞

[iteles]

When we sat down when you started drawing it, this is exactly what we discussed. I'm going to ask for a budget with this option and also with multiple panes across the front.

[iteles]

The shape is exactly what we had discussed. As I mentioned [https://github.com//issues/15#issuecomment-426301666], what we discussed with Sr. António was that he would give us a budget for various window pane configurations:

• A single non-opening pane across the front, with básculante panes on the sides
• 2 or 3 fixed panes on the front, with básculante panes on the sides
• Fixed panes on the sides, with 3 basculante panes across the front
• I will also enquire about 2 basculante panes across the front but I suspect having 2 panes only would be too big for this.

The panes will have to match the windows in the rest of the house so I don't think there are any blockers to sending this for a quote. We should then discuss our preferred option and confirm once we have the quotes.

Are there any other configurations you'd like me to ask about?

[nelsonic]

@iteles what else do you need (from me) in order to "make progress" with this issue?

[iteles]

Emailed earlier today. Now we wait.

[nelsonic]

@iteles do you think Carlos could get a "head start" on this?
Or is he only "keen" on working when "all the pieces" are ready?

[iteles]

Second option. Until the windows and doors are made, he won't start opening walls.

[nelsonic]

@iteles I never suggested "opening walls".
on the contrary, I would suggest that focusses on the outside of the veranda
until the windows are made/delivered.
I can give him the design of just the part he can focus on
and then when the windows are ready,
he just makes the "break" in the wall
cleans up the "hole" and the windows "slot in".

[iteles]

As he's gone to another obra, he will only begin working on things when we have a solid date for the windows to arrive unfortunately 😕

[nelsonic]

@iteles can we get Carlos to "assign" a "day labourer" to our project to do "prep" tasks
so that we can make as much of a "head start" as possible before the windows/doors are ready?

[iteles]

I asked him that and he said he doesn't have enough people for the work he has on at the other sites at the moment, but to get in touch once things move forward with Sr. Antonio (who Pedro is seeing this afternoon and calling me when he's in his company).

[nelsonic]

Ok. fair enough. construction crew are "scarce" right now. (we know from Andy's project)
We could "break down" some of the tasks and create a Gantt chart in the mean time ...
good to know Pedro is visiting Sr. Antonio this afternoon. thanks.

[iteles]

We went past the factory yesterday to discuss this with the manufacturers.

Our main concern was the original cost and most importantly the maintenance cost of the large window across the front.

We agreed that instead of the large front window, we would have:

• 3 panes of glass
  • They will continue to be fixed (non-opening)
  • Preferable to 2 panes as you don't have a joint down the middle of the glass
  • If the glass is broken for some reason, a smaller pane will need to be swapped out and it can be installed manually, without the use of a crane
• Double glazing with expansion joints between each of the 3 panes
• Thin profile window frame around the exterior or the window
  • There was a discussion around whether having this window frame of a different thickness to all the others in the house but the concern was dismissed with more pros than cons

Note: the below is to illustrate the join between the 3 window panes only, the window will be straight, not curved.

[nelsonic]

@iteles any news on the revised spec and cost for the veranda?

[iteles]

Still waiting. My last chase was Thursday 15th November.

[iteles]

The frames for the windows arrived on 19-Dec-2018 but there was no glass in them because of a factory delay 🤦‍♀️ The glass should arrive on 4-Jan-2019 or 7-Jan-2019.

In the meantime, as we started to prepare the wall to be knocked out (by clearing the plaster first), we found this:

These stones are massive and easily 30-40cm in depth, much bigger than the other stone wall that has been opened up. They are much bigger than expected, will need cranes to lift them (or will all need to be sliced into smaller pieces - in itself a big job) and if one is dropped from any height, it will crash straight through the floor into the level below. Our contractor has also told us that at the level of the quote he gave us for the work, he will lose money, which is not a situation we want to put him in either.

It's a beautiful feature wall and I'm tempted to just leave it in place!

I have two major concerns with this:

• We will lose a lot of light we had planned in this room
• The dining room will definitely not fit the whole home community for a meal at once without being extended and the balcony section is thin and long and it will be tricky to use that space effectively & intuitively even if it's closed in

Next Steps

• Draw out the potential furniture layout for the room
• Make a decision
• Tell contractors

@nelsonic Could you please share the sketchup file so I can start trying some combinations please?

[nelsonic]

"let's book a meeting during our meeting tomorrow" ... 🙄

[iteles]

Fair. But it's past 21h00 so it's not going to happen today and the first time we interact is our standup!

[nelsonic]

Re-worked:

[nelsonic]

@iteles I can make very workable built-in folding tables on both ends of the veranda that will maximise the space. The original idea to break down the veranda walls to expand the dining room was yours, you should have the "final say" on whether the idea should be "scrapped" to make the foreman happy (because it's going to be a lot of work to take down the massive stones).
Having the opening instead of the current window will add a lot of natural light.

Please make the call.
(I'm genuinely happy with either option. I prefer your idea - more open space, but I totally see Carlos' point that it's going to be a lot of work ... and we can always re-configure the tables in the "main" room for weekly dinners or use the "sunroom" #14 for meals)

[nelsonic]

Exported 2D Graphics (JPG) for sharing/printing:

[nelsonic]

@iteles I printed the 2D renders.
I could not find the blu-tac/white-tac on your desk so I could not put the prints on the wall.
If you can inform me where the blu-tac/white-tac is, I will put up the prints on the wall.

[iteles]

I love this wall and having a piece of the original wall on display in home is an idea that makes my heart sing 🎶 But now that the construction of the exterior walls has begun, the space that is left beyond the wall is tight for any real seating area, even with fold-down tables.

We had a meeting with our builders this week and agreed we would knock down the left-most wall and not the right-most wall. The right-most wall will be cleaned up and conserved and we'll make a sunny breakfast nook behind it ☀️ 🥐 🍓

Bringing the priority of this down now that construction has started and decisions required have been made.

[nelsonic]

@iteles should I update the Sketchup Diagram?
Carlos was asking about (ceiling) lighting for the veranda ...
given that no finishing has been done yet, should we prepare a ceiling lighting plan for it?
(to run the necessary conduit and cable ...)

[iteles]

@nelsonic Yes, that's definitely the next step once they remake and fit the final window which they mis-measured (to keep the rain out)! 👍
He was asking about it because I told him that was next on the list after the attic and fire safety plans when I was speaking to him and the electrician earlier this week 😉

[nelsonic]

Before: (messy veranda with overgrown plants)

Work-in-progress photo:

[iteles]

@nelsonic I believe there are three things left to be done here:

• Window folks need to fix the glass that has broken in the window from the fitting
• Cementing a tiny crack in the interior (non-structural) stone wall
• Extra support beams on the window 'seams'
• Deciding what protective coat we want on the outside of these walls

[nelsonic]

We need to take/upload updated photos next time we are at the site.

[iteles]

@nelsonic What is the best protective coat for the outside of these walls?
Whereas the plan is to have plants everywhere #22 the growing time will mean that there is a period of time when this section of the house will look unsightly and different to the rest of the house from the outside if they leave it as-is.

This is definitely something Carlos could work on next week.

[nelsonic]

@iteles good question. ❓
Currently the exterior walls are "off-white". Which I don't find visually offensive at all.
Yes it does not look amaze when contrasted with the rest of the house which is brown,
but I feel that there are much higher priority tasks for Carlos to complete that aren't painting exteriors...
The priority-3 label you have applied above seems appropriate at this stage.
We can easily hire someone to paint the exterior after we are living in the house. 👍

[iteles]

Currently they're just 'dry cement colour', in the wet it will look dark grey.

I wasn't speaking so much of the colour as asking the question of if there's something that needs to go over the cement to protect it a bit more from the elements.

[nelsonic]

@iteles maybe get some photos tomorrow to illustrate.

[iteles]

Before the dining room extension:

Dining room from the inside after extension:

On the question of painting the outside (above)

This is the standard colour of the cement on the outside when dry (you can see the section colour change from the main house to the dining room extension very clearly here too):

And then when wet - you can see the darker colour it goes when wet in the photo below, the bottom half of the wall is wet:

➡️ It needs a coat of paint so that it doesn't look disjointed and more importantly so that it is protected from the elements and doesn't grow moss in the next 6 months.

The question is: what colour?

[nelsonic]

I agree that the raw concrete/rendering should be protected from the elements (moss) ASAP.
Please ask Carlos what his availability is to do the work.
In the first instance I'd say we should color-match it to the existing brown.
I don't like the brown and will be covering it in plants in due course.
But if the objective is temporary appearance and avoidance of moss growing on it,
then brown makes sense to "blend" it in with the rest of the building.