The ability to toggle the automatic creation of auto-upload folders

[jcklpe]

Is your feature request related to a problem? Please describe.

Personally I think it would be a good idea for the user to have the option to toggle off and on the automatic creation of auto-upload folder connections.

Describe the solution you'd like

Having the auto addition of folders can be helpful but it can also be annoying. The ability to toggle that behavior off and on would be a good start.

I think this is a good idea because sometimes users will upload a massive number of media folders, such as a music library and they don't want every single album with album art in it to get it's own connection.

Describe alternatives you've considered

I have uninstalled the NextCloud android client and set up a bunch of syncing folders with FolderSync [link]

I would prefer to support/use/test the NextCloud client though. The foldersync is not specifically made for NextCloud so it has a more cluttered interface, setting up syncs is less straightforward, and because it relies on a webdav connection the instant sync feature only works when adding or deleting files on the android side of things, and can not work the other way around.

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This request is part of a more general issue I have with the lack of control that the nextcloud android client provides clients in their syncing process.

A lot of my issues can be tracked by this previous bug report when I originally thought that this was possible and the difficulty in doing this thing was not by design: #3161

See related feature request issue here: #3263

[m0qui]

This. I have a large music collection on my phone, and every single time I add an album (incl. album artwork) I get it added to the auto upload section and a notification. Would be nice to have an option to disable media folder detection or at least the notifications.

[AndyScherzinger]

@nextcloud/designers your input here is highly appreciated. Issue described by the reporter here is:

• auto upload list shows any folder that contains media (images and/or video) found on the device's storage (so you can easily activate it)
• auto upload notifies you via a OS notification everytime it detects a new folder of this kind (for you to easily activate it for auto upload)

This reports argues to have some kind of "setting" to disable both things. Any ideas/input on how this could be solved? Personally I consider this an edge case to be honest which doesn't mean we shouldn't look for a solution but I think most users don't hae these scenarios.
For notifications there has been a separate discussion on how to handle this, already discussing with @tobiasKaminsky how to solve this. Idea for the notification solution would be:

• have a separate notification chanel, so on modern Android OS version you can disable such notifications
• have a "ingnore" action on the notification to disable such notifications
• if these notifications are set to ignore then the settings screen will show an option to activate them again (else this will be hidden).

As for the auto upload list, I have no real clue on how to solve this. We could add a hide-option but that wouldn't help in case of massive amounts of folders containing media files.

So notifications is something where we are having ideas on how to solve this, as for the auto upload folder list, I don't :/

Looking forward to your feeddback.

[jcklpe]

The hide option would be much appreciated. It wouldn't help with the case of adding a massive number of media folders, but that is really a separate issue. I should have perhaps made two separate tickets as there is really two feature requests here.

1. Being able to toggle control of the auto upload folder connection creation behavior.
2. Being able to manually hide/delete inactive auto upload folder connections that we don't desire to use or are no longer relevant.

I can divide this out into two separate tickets if you believe that would be helpful or better form. Apologies for me not thinking through the issue fully.

[AndyScherzinger]

@jcklpe no worries and thanks for taking the time to discuss this and for offering to split the issue. We highly appreciate if you could split the issue since that would make it easier for designers and developers to comment on it since it is then a single matter per issue/ticket and that makes it easier for people to follow the disscussion and to get to a decission on what to do and how to do it. ❤️

[jcklpe]

Done 😄

also this might be too granular but I think one could talk about the ability to toggle off and on the automatic creation of auto upload folder connections on 2 levels. 1. The ability to toggle it off and on and 2. The ability to edit the rules or limitations which guide the behavior of the automatic creation of autoupload folder connections. IE, being able to keep it on, but limit it to only watching certain folders, exclude certain folders, or allowing it to first ask permission before creating the folders, etc.

[AndyScherzinger]

Thanks for creating the issue @jcklpe ❤️ I'd say let take it from here and see if it improves the situation. as for the granular detailing: I'd leave that out of the discussion for now since it would lead to more settings added to the app and increases complexity for the typical user while we follow the principle to have a s little configuration as possible and rather have smart defaults and in-app logic so the users don't have to deal with the complexity. Like I posted in the other issue, maybe we can come up with a smarter way for the detection.
I also check Google Photos and that app simply notififies you about any media folder it finds (which is what we do now) and yes that isn't the best way of dealing with it.

[jcklpe]

I also use Google photos and I think the asking permission first is a good idea, at least as an option. Totally get you on keeping things simple though. I think the simplest version of this, the ability to toggle whether it autodetects and creates, would be very helpful and the simplest approach with the most immediate benefit.

[AndyScherzinger]

@jancborchardt @jcklpe @m0qui can you discribe folder/file structures you have on your device that shouldn't show up in the auto upload section? From what I understand it is mostly

• music/album folders mit 1 image (cover art)

• other folders with just 1 image

• Anything else?

• Are these folders/images located in a special place (or where are they located in general)

In general, as kind of asked for by @m0qui there is already an option present in the notifications themselves to disable the detection notification (the list entry is still there nevertheles due to the discovery mechanism in that activity), While the last part is what I like to improve as discussed within this issue already. What I don't understand is the exact structure to be able to come up with a pattern. Looking forward to your feedback and input. ❤️

[jcklpe]

@AndyScherzinger : What I'm requesting is the option to turn off the automatic creation of auto-upload folders entirely. I'm not asking for a complex pattern to be programmed to intelligently select the correct folders automatically. I would like the option to handle this stuff entirely manually because I do not think there is going to be a pattern which covers all usecases considering people are going to be using their phones very differently and they'll be using different apps with different folder structures etc.

[AndyScherzinger]

Ah, my mistake. Well, the described solutions design seems to be th epattern: "add a configurable option" which as per my understanding is a design anti-pattern of the app/designers. So pinging @jancborchardt @nextcloud/designers for input and feedback.

As for finding the smart pattern that covers anything, I agree, can't be found. While I'd argue that the detection mechanism (plus some rather simple pattern) would cover 99% of the user base (as-in annybody's parents) while navigating th estorage of a device is rather a expert approach (where designers would argue that there is no such thing as experts ;)

[jancborchardt]

One of the big things we do as developers is writing software which uses specific patterns to save time for most people.

So let’s go with that, rather than manual. If the pattern is complex that’s ok – if the app is complex to the users then it’s not.

@AndyScherzinger to answer your question, all of my cases fit the pattern:

music/album folders mit 1 image (cover art)

They are literally all "jpg" (one in uppercase .JPG), most of them called cover.jpg but some have specific names. Rarely there’s 2 images in there, like front and back cover (only have two cases of this).

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@jcklpe understand that you have very specific requests which doesn’t necessarily make you our core target audience, and we will try making sure that the app works for a majority of people first. We move step by step, but it’s important to not overengineer because we always need to maintain the things we build.

[jcklpe]

@jancborchardt @AndyScherzinger :

I think there's some miscommunications going on here. In my perception there are a couple of different positions being advocated here. Let me be clear about my own position first:

My request:

I am not requesting a the design anti-pattern of a configurable option.

Again I don't know if this is a language thing or something else because I keep explaining this and when you reply it seems you think I'm requesting something that I am not.

Things I'm not requesting:

1. I'm not requesting "expert mode".
2. I'm not requesting the ability to create complex personal configurations for filtering which folders get automatically added to syncing.
3. I'm not requesting configurable options.

Things I am request:

1. To be able to opt out of new folders with photos in them automatically being added to the nextcloud folder syncing process.

That's it. That's the only thing I'm requesting.

The design pattern I'm suggesting here is already being used by Google Photos which is your target demographic of "anybody's parents".

Where the disagreement lies

It seems to me that the root of this disagreement if there is one is that @jancborchardt wants the nextcloud app to contain rules which intelligently add folders for auto-uploading.

"One of the big things we do as developers is writing software which uses specific patterns to save time for most people."

I do not think that is possible and I think attempting to do this will only make your app more complex and hard to understand.

If you think it's possible to write this code, then ya'll should do it, and if you succeed then I will happily applaud you. But to me this seems like a clear fool's errand.

Ironically this is to me a better example of "overengineering" than my suggested solution. Engineers love clever solutions that solve problems invisibly and automatically. But life is messy and some things simply can't be automated. The ability to opt out of new folders automatically being added to syncing services is alreadysupported by mainstream photo syncing services like Google Photos. If Google can't solve this issue, then how do you think you guys will?

So this is the central question:

Is it possible for devs to write a embedded configuration for automatically selecting which folders get auto synced, and which don't?

and then

If not, should users get the option to opt out of this behavior?

I think they should. This is not a complex series of configurations. This is not an "expert mode". This is a single toggle.

Does this make my position finally clear?

I get if you guys think you can write this code etc, and it's ya'll's project and it's your right to approach this the way you want, but I just want to make it clear what my request is and that I am NOT requesting some kind of niche set of complex configurations or expert mode. My request is quite the opposite.

[jancborchardt]

Ok, I must have thought this was a different issue, sorry about that.

Doing it like Google Photos is fine by me. 👍

[AndyScherzinger]

Just a a side note: #7042 will add an implementation to ignore to ignore music albums that just feature a cover/folder jpg.

[jcklpe]

Okay this automatic creation of auto-upload folders is getting more and more annoying. Everytime I get a new phone, with slightly different folders, it adds new upload folders. But it also keeps the old auto folder uploads. So now my auto upload settings page is a complete mess of old and irrelevant folder. 

For instance Facebook used to save photos to DCIM/Facebook but now it saves to Pictures/Facebook. Despite the fact that facebook no longer saves to DCIM/Facebook I still have that autoupload folder junking up my settings. Despite the fact that it hasn't used that auto upload in 2 phones! 

I can now hide some of those folders but that doesn't fundamentally fix the issue. What am I going to do with this app in 5 years, or 10. Is it just going to keep collecting garbage? This is a completely unworkable solution. 

I understand the desire to make things seamless and automatic but I do not think ya'll can make this work. More manual control for the users is needed.

[AndyScherzinger]

@tobiasKaminsky @AlvaroBrey I guess this is due to the fact that this information gets restored via Google and your Google account on a new device. So what could be a working solution:

• could we block Google from syncing this to the profile
• auto cleanup any entry where the source folder doesn't exist on the device?

ATM just discussing solutions :)

[jcklpe]

Why not just give users the ability to to delete a folder-sync-connection? That seems like the simplest solution, at least from my perspective as a User. 

We already have a manual hide option, it's just that isn't really sustainable when thinking in terms of 5-10 years or more etc.

[AlvaroBrey]

* could we block Google from syncing this to the profile

* auto cleanup any entry where the source folder doesn't exist on the device?

Auto cleanup seems like a reasonable thing to do.
However, I also think a global "disable auto-upload folder detection" toggle is a good idea and we should implement it.

[Bun-Bun]

I also am needing a global disable for the autoupload detection feature.

On my new phone the photo app creates 100s of folders daily that nextcloud then picks up. Due to performance and governance issues with Nextcloud I have moved my photo sync to other methods. However, as it stands i can't even have the Nextcloud app installed as it keeps detecting all these folders every time I take a picture. A global disable of the auto upload folder detection would fix this issue.

[Bun-Bun]

@jcklpe understand that you have very specific requests which doesn’t necessarily make you our core target audience, and we will try making sure that the app works for a majority of people first. We move step by step, but it’s important to not overengineer because we always need to maintain the things we build.

Then why are all the suggestions, from devs on this and similar topics, ones of being overengineered? You can't possibly account for every users specific needs with heuristics. Global disable will at least let us disable this feature and manuall configure folders in the app or use other apps entirely for this functionality.

[jcklpe]

For what it's worth, I have now had to completely disable all photo uploading with the nextcloud app because it has gotten confused and tries to auto upload the same folder twice, leading to a constant "2 files on the server, which do you keep" error?

Ya'll this is broken, please listen to your Users.