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Meeting 2015 10 22
Public call:
When: 2015/10/22, 9AM PDT, Convert to your time
Where: #pump.io channel at IRC (irc.freenode.net), you can attend also via XMPP/Jabber, since we have a bridge (MUC: pump.io@muc.jappix.com ), or via web ( http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=pump.io )
Informal meeting. No agenda, just status updates, comments on the aspects we have advanced until now, and maybe hack together on some pending stuff.
[18:02] <larjona> #############################################################
[18:02] <larjona> BEGIN LOG
[18:02] <larjona> #############################################################
[18:02] <larjona> Dear all, welcome to this pump.io community meeting!
[18:02] <larjona> Info URL:
[18:02] <larjona> https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Meeting-2015-10-22
[18:02] <larjona> If anybody wants their nick redacted just say here or direct message to me.
[18:02] * strugee will be here as soon as he finishes estimating some physics stuff
[18:02] <larjona> Roll call. Who's here?
[18:03] * larjona is here, of course :D
[18:03] <molgrum> i am but i haven't developed for pump.io at all :P
[18:03] <larjona> no problem molgrum, there are many different roles in the community
[18:04] <molgrum> i am a programmer tho, i have made patches for mediagoblin
pacovila joins
[18:05] <molgrum> just haven't looked at pump.io source code
[18:05] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] o/
[18:05] <larjona> paroneayea may come a bit late, and Evan said he would be here too.
[18:07] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] we can wait a little bit longer
[18:07] <larjona> yes,
[18:07] <larjona> some #coffee in the meanwhile
[18:07] <larjona> ,--.
[18:07] <larjona> C| |
[18:07] <larjona> `=='
[18:07] <larjona> and some info for the newcomers:
[18:08] <larjona> #INFO: the community page: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Community with logs for the two meetings we already had
[18:08] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] also in the meantime, if someone wants to take a look at this documentation stub: http://pumpio.readthedocs.org
e_s_p joins
[18:11] <e_s_p> Hey all
[18:11] * strugee is somewhat here
[18:11] <e_s_p> Sorry I'm late
[18:11] <strugee> larjona: ^
[18:11] <larjona> hey e_s_p!
[18:11] <larjona> a bit late but we owe you a cake, so here it is
[18:11] <larjona> iiiiiiiiii
[18:11] <larjona> |:H:a:p:p:y:|
[18:11] <larjona> |_______|
[18:11] <larjona> |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|
[18:11] <larjona> |:B:i:r:t:h:d:a:y:|
[18:11] <larjona> | |
[18:11] <larjona> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[18:11] <e_s_p> for me!?
[18:11] <e_s_p> Thanks!
[18:12] * e_s_p eats entire birthday cake
[18:12] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] oh, a user with mental powers appeared :D
[18:13] <larjona> ok so today's meeting was to share news about what has been done until now, and maybe comment together. It was an informal meeting, because we were not sure who could attend...
[18:13] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] hi e_s_p o/
[18:13] <larjona> So, I can give some update in communications
[18:13] <larjona> we have the community accounts:
[18:13] <larjona> https://pumpit.info/pumpio (down right now)
[18:13] <larjona> @pumpdotio in Twitter
[18:13] <e_s_p> Oh nice!
Distopic` leaves
[18:14] <larjona> and I'm able to deal with meeting calls/logs, etc
[18:14] <e_s_p> larjona: I think there may already be a Facebook page
[18:14] <larjona> oh, no idea
[18:14] * larjona not in FB
[18:15] <e_s_p> I'm checking right now
[18:15] <larjona> JanKusanagi already posted about the documentation stub http://pumpio.readthedocs.org but frankly, I'm not sure if we are willing/able to switch from the github wiki, or they are complementary...
[18:16] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] readthedocs could use the github wiki to generate the documentation, probably
[18:17] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I noticed that the github.com wiki has an accessible associated git repo for the markdown files
[18:17] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] that could be used
[18:17] <larjona> and if you go to https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc you'll see there has been a bit movement in the issue tracker during last days, including adding documentation pieces to the wiki, README...
[18:17] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] but there might be some syntax differences between their markdown and readthedocs'
[18:17] <e_s_p> xmpp-pump: yes, I believe they have an enhanced markdown format
[18:18] <larjona> same for the pull requests: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc+is%3Apr
[18:18] <e_s_p> larjona: I saw that activity, very promising!
[18:18] <larjona> I think I have no more updates, maybe strugee can tell us about the hacks in the test suite?
DistopicoVegan joins
[18:19] <strugee> in ~5 minutes or so
[18:19] <strugee> can we discuss the CLA?
[18:20] <strugee> e_s_p: is that something you want to continue with?
[18:20] <strugee> the reason I want to discuss this is because once it's done we can start merging PRs
[18:20] <e_s_p> strugee: it's nice to have something
[18:20] <e_s_p> But I'm OK with taking it out
[18:20] <e_s_p> It basically just says "I wrote this"
[18:21] <e_s_p> No assignment, no nothing
[18:21] <paroneayea> hi!
[18:21] <paroneayea> I'm late
[18:21] <paroneayea> but here!
[18:21] <e_s_p> "I did not copy thing from somewhere I shouldn't have"
[18:22] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] hi cwebber
[18:22] <larjona> paroneayea ^
[18:22] <e_s_p> strugee: but I'm happy to modify or remove it
[18:22] <e_s_p> It's something that commercial Open Source users really think is important
[18:22] <strugee> oh really? ok
[18:22] <strugee> I thought it assigned copyright to E14N
[18:23] <e_s_p> No
[18:23] <strugee> great
efraim leaves
[18:23] <strugee> that seems reasonable
[18:23] <larjona> I can add a note explaining that in the Community page
[18:23] <strugee> are we all ok with that?
[18:24] <e_s_p> Excuse me, I misspoke
[18:24] <paroneayea> e_s_p: it does say "sign it", which is I think where people get nervous
[18:24] <e_s_p> It does do a massive grant
[18:24] <strugee> there it is
[18:24] <strugee> :)
[18:24] <e_s_p> And then agrees only to re-license under the APL 2.0
[18:25] <strugee> that was rude I'm sorry
[18:25] <e_s_p> I think there was another contributor agreement that Bradley suggested
[18:25] <paroneayea> e_s_p: yeah it says that you can sublicense
[18:25] <larjona> #INFO: we're talking about this document: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/blob/master/CLA.md
[18:25] <paroneayea> as other things
[18:25] <e_s_p> I think the idea is that you can upgrade the license
[18:25] <paroneayea> e_s_p: you mean to AS3? :)
[18:26] <e_s_p> ?
[18:26] <e_s_p> Apache 3?
[18:26] <e_s_p> Right, if that ever happened
[18:26] <e_s_p> It seems like a much less big deal for a permissive license than for a copyleft one
[18:26] <paroneayea> a bigger concern to me
[18:27] <paroneayea> is if GPLv4 came out and was incompatible, or something... though I think that's unlikely to happen.
[18:27] * larjona in phone call, sorry
[18:27] <e_s_p> NP
[18:27] <e_s_p> I have to ditch
[18:27] <e_s_p> Let's ask Bradley and Richard about it
[18:27] <paroneayea> ok
[18:27] <paroneayea> e_s_p: you're leaving the meeting?
[18:28] <paroneayea> e_s_p: (np if so, just checking I understood)
[18:28] <strugee> ok, so are we keeping the CLA or not?
[18:28] <paroneayea> but yes let's ask richard / bradley
[18:28] <e_s_p> No, we're getting rid of it
[18:28] <strugee> ok
[18:28] <strugee> no problem
[18:28] <paroneayea> strugee: I think we're going to seek out Richard Fontana and Bradley Kuhn for if there are better routes forward
[18:28] <strugee> e_s_p: thanks for stopping by!
[18:28] <e_s_p> But I think Bradley and Richard had a suggestion for a statement that I think Linux uses
[18:28] <paroneayea> so ditching and that?
[18:28] <paroneayea> ok
[18:28] <paroneayea> e_s_p: yes thanks for coming
[18:29] <e_s_p> Like "I wrote this or got it from a place with a compatible license"
[18:29] <e_s_p> Instead of "I just copied this from a textbook" or "I found this on Stack Overflow"
[18:29] <paroneayea> e_s_p: btw I now have the AS2 library I was writing to the point where it does most of the things I want, I think I'll be able to have it working with tests by next call and be documented
[18:29] <e_s_p> That would be so cool!
[18:30] * paroneayea is pushing hard on it!
[18:30] <e_s_p> So, I'd like to do a hackathon and get a couple more implementations running
[18:30] <e_s_p> And also have the output of pump.io optionally producing AS2 if you request the right media type
[18:30] <paroneayea> e_s_p: yes, that came up last meeting
[18:30] <e_s_p> I hope so! I put it on the agenda
[18:30] <paroneayea> e_s_p: basically people were directed to fill out your doodle thing, not if so
[18:31] <paroneayea> er not sure if done
[18:31] <e_s_p> Right, I saw a bunch
[18:31] <paroneayea> great
[18:32] <paroneayea> so, other topics?
[18:32] <larjona> fundraising? pump nodes adoption?
[18:33] <larjona> tests? strugeee
[18:33] <larjona> strugee
[18:33] <strugee> yeah so the tests
[18:33] <strugee> I sent PRs for the bumps that I tested
[18:33] <strugee> so mostly it's Zombie left
[18:34] <strugee> we have 3 options:
BenC__ joins
[18:34] <strugee> 1) try to get Zombie 2.x to work
[18:34] <strugee> 2) move to Zombie 4.x
[18:34] <strugee> 3) move to PhantomJS/SlimerJS
[18:34] <paroneayea> 4) drop them
[18:34] <strugee> yeah
[18:34] <paroneayea> which e_s_p said was an option a few weeks ago
[18:35] <strugee> that too
[18:35] <strugee> personally I'd prefer to have tests for the browser stuff but what's there right now is not that much
[18:35] <strugee> so option 3) actually wouldn't lose us a lot of work
[18:37] <strugee> I vote we either do 2) or 3)
[18:37] <paroneayea> strugee: I think this option is up to you if you're doing the work
[18:37] <paroneayea> or to whoever does it
[18:37] <strugee> I can work some on it
[18:37] <strugee> especially after SeaGL
[18:38] <strugee> I think probably eventually we should use PhantomJS or SlimerJS, but for now let's just rip out all the Zombie tests
[18:39] <strugee> I'm fairly sure that that, combined with the PRs I sent, should get the test suite passing
[18:39] * larjona is back
[18:39] <strugee> or at least extremely close
[18:39] <paroneayea> ok, great strugee !
[18:39] <paroneayea> \o/
[18:40] <larjona> Do we need that somebody does something? Sorry I'm not sure if that was just to share opinions, and strugee + paroneayea can deal with it
[18:40] <strugee> I can send a PR ripping out all the Zombie stuff
[18:41] * strugee will be right back
[18:41] <paroneayea> that sounds good strugee
[18:41] <larjona> paroneayea or e_s_p are you willing/able to review and merge that PR, if you see it's ok?
[18:42] <paroneayea> e_s_p would be much faster at reviewing, but I can do so if needed
[18:42] <paroneayea> it isn't reviewed by next meeting
[18:42] <paroneayea> put it on my todo
[18:43] <larjona> ok, anything else?
[18:44] <larjona> node adoption? or sysadmin lieutenants?
[18:44] <BenC__> I'm still willing to sponsor or adopt a node
[18:45] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] IIRC, Evan's preference was for the nodes to be adopted by non-profit entities, rather than individuals
[18:45] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] did e_s_p leave already?
[18:45] <larjona> there is this list: https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/wiki/Community#people-that-may-be-interested-in-adopting-e14n-nodes
[18:46] <larjona> ok maybe it's better to leave that topic for next meeting
[18:47] <strugee> so I already sent some PRs with simple version bumps for the test suite
[18:47] <paroneayea> maybe we should put it at top of agenda for next week, on the condition that e_s_p is present
[18:47] <larjona> I have one/two proposals for next week's meeting: bug squashing party + deployment + documentation, or pump.node adoption + fundraising + roadmap
[18:47] <paroneayea> strugee: that's awesome!
e_s_p leaves
[18:48] <strugee> paroneayea: if you can merge those that would be awesome
[18:48] <strugee> they're really simple changes
[18:49] <strugee> larjona: sounds great
[18:49] <paroneayea> strugee: I'll look online
[18:49] <paroneayea> strugee: also, I'd be happy to give you commit access
[18:50] <paroneayea> just merged one
[18:50] <paroneayea> we should set up the github bot to talk in here
[18:50] <larjona> I can propose the both agendas, one for the case evan comes, the other for the case he cannot
[18:50] <strugee> paroneayea: that'd bee great
[18:51] <strugee> larjona: that would be wonderful
[18:51] <larjona> Jan do you need help in coordinating the wiki and readthedocs? or you can deal with it?
[18:51] <strugee> paroneayea: is it ok if I merge PRs that I've reviewed?
[18:52] <strugee> e.g. https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/pull/1114 has some great work
[18:52] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] well, I've been doing, basically, whatever I wanted
[18:52] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] we should probably agree in a structure or something
[18:52] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I've only added a few documents for now
[18:53] <paroneayea> strugee: giving you commit access. With great power comes great responsibility.
[18:53] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] https://github.com/e14n/pump.io/commits/master ← commits in 2015! \o/
[18:53] <paroneayea> I'd advise you to talk about major changes before committing them in here
[18:53] <paroneayea> or
[18:53] <larjona> I appreciate your work, Jan, but if we are not abandoning the wiki, I'm not sure why to have the docs in two places
[18:53] <paroneayea> if you have consensus on ticket
[18:53] <paroneayea> that's good too
[18:53] <strugee> yeah, of course
GitHub182 joins
[18:54] <GitHub182> [pump.io] cwebber pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vWcNk
[18:54] <GitHub182> pump.io/master 22b9b42 Alex Jordan: Fix package.json license format
[18:54] <GitHub182> pump.io/master 44b24c8 Christopher Allan Webber: Merge pull request #1112 from strugee/fix-package-json-license...
GitHub182 leaves
[18:54] <paroneayea> okay great
[18:54] <larjona> oleole
[18:54] <strugee> great!
[18:54] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] there's nothing decided larjona, of course
GitHub143 joins
[18:55] <GitHub143> [pump.io] cwebber closed pull request #1113: Bump simplesmtp version (master...bump-simplesmtp) http://git.io/vWcAs
GitHub143 leaves
GitHub130 joins
[18:55] <GitHub130> [pump.io] cwebber pushed 2 new commits to master: http://git.io/vWcAG
[18:55] <GitHub130> pump.io/master 9d7c0f4 Alex Jordan: Bump simplesmtp version...
[18:55] <GitHub130> pump.io/master 10f95ed Christopher Allan Webber: Merge pull request #1113 from strugee/bump-simplesmtp...
GitHub130 leaves
[18:55] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] but I'd be in favor of moving away from the github.com wiki
[18:55] <larjona> me too
[18:55] <paroneayea> strugee: you have commit access
[18:55] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] if not, readthedocs.org can be setup to create the documentation from that wiki anyway
[18:55] <strugee> paroneayea: thanks! \o/
[18:55] <paroneayea> I'm okay with you pushing version adjustments as long as you've tested them btw
[18:55] <strugee> yeah
[18:55] <paroneayea> at this point, Evan and I have limited time, and if you think those are right, go for it
[18:56] <strugee> makes sense
[18:56] <larjona> Jan what about synchronizing the wiki to readthedocs-stable, and create a branch/version readthedocs-testing with new structure etc?
[18:56] <paroneayea> strugee: thank you for doing that work! :)
[18:56] <paroneayea> strugee: bigger things of course deserve discussion... getting us out of our version quagmire, no discussion needed! :)
[18:56] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] well, I'd say readthedocs can be the new/future structure
[18:56] <strugee> :)
[18:57] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] and fo the "stable" docs, just go to the wiki, as i'ts been until now
[18:57] <larjona> ok, that works for me
[18:57] <larjona> that = Jan's comments
BenC__ leaves
[18:57] <larjona> so, 3 minutes for the 1-hour completion. Anything else?
[18:58] * paroneayea has nothing
[18:58] <paroneayea> we need a good ascii art to close things out though!
[18:58] <paroneayea> larjona: got something, or want an ascii donation? :)
[18:58] <larjona> I have a nice cat
[18:58] <larjona> /___/\
[18:58] <larjona> ( o o )
[18:58] <larjona> / * \
[18:58] <larjona> ___/__/ meow!
[18:58] <larjona> / \
[18:58] <larjona> / ___ \
[18:58] <larjona> /___/
[18:58] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] what's the general opinion on moving the documentation away from the github wiki to a git repo+readthedocs.org?
[18:58] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] sorry, I killed the cat :D
[18:58] <paroneayea> great cat larjona !
[18:58] <larjona> no, it was finished
[18:59] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] not from here :D
[18:59] <paroneayea> larjona: it got interrupted, ascii art scrolls slowly because of rate limiting
[18:59] <paroneayea> though it appears to go fast for you
[18:59] <paroneayea> but
[18:59] <larjona> ok, so wait
[18:59] <paroneayea> great cat, we could make it out :)
[18:59] <larjona> don't write anything
[18:59] <larjona> here it comes again
[18:59] <larjona> /___/\
[18:59] <larjona> ( o o )
[18:59] <larjona> / * \
[18:59] <larjona> ___/__/ meow!
[18:59] <larjona> / \
[18:59] <larjona> / ___ \
[18:59] <larjona> /___/
[18:59] <larjona> now we have two cats
[18:59] <paroneayea> :D
[19:00] <paroneayea> so kay-yewt
[19:00] <paroneayea> er
[19:00] <paroneayea> kah-yewt
[19:00] <paroneayea> (cute)
[19:00] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] what's the general opinion on moving the documentation away from the github wiki to a git repo+readthedocs.org?
[19:00] <paroneayea> Jan: I think all the formal documentation should move there
[19:00] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] I'm working with a gitlab.com repo ATM, but we can always move it somewhere else
[19:01] <paroneayea> and informal things, we can kind of leave in the wiki and figure things out as we go
[19:01] <larjona> I prefer to move anything out from github :D
[19:01] <paroneayea> JanKusanagi: for many projects I just put the sphinx repo in the project itself
[19:01] <paroneayea> I'd be fine moving the whole project to gitlab, but that's a conversation that needs evan
[19:01] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] yep, but that's a different issue :D
[19:01] <strugee> agreed
[19:02] <larjona> so the proposal would be: new/informal documentation in the wiki, stabilized stuff goes to readthedocs?
[19:03] <larjona> or leave the wiki as is (plus corrections if we find errors), new proposals to readthedocs?
[19:04] <larjona> .oO( pumpit.info still down, hosting the community account :/ )
[19:05] <strugee> maybe that's why the Twitter mirroring is broken
[19:05] <paroneayea> yes I think so
[19:05] <paroneayea> well
[19:06] <paroneayea> move most important things to sphinx/readthedocs
[19:06] <paroneayea> and then leave notes / links on the old pages "this has moved to the official docs, see link"
[19:06] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] larjona, we could add a note at the "root" page of the wiki pointing to readthedocs (in big letters), and concentrate in updating the git repo used for readthedocs
[19:06] <larjona> ok, perfect
[19:06] <larjona> I'll devote time to this, until next meeting
[19:06] <paroneayea> awesome
[19:07] <paroneayea> great job running the meeting larjona !
[19:07] <larjona> I'll close the logging
[19:07] <paroneayea> and thanks to all for attending! I'm so happy to see pump.io moving forward again
[19:07] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] larjona, I guess you're ok with working with gitlab.com
[19:07] <xmpp-pump> [Jan] thanks for coming! \ø/
[19:07] <larjona> I'm liberal in other people's stuff, conservative with mine :D
[19:07] <larjona> #############################################################
[19:07] <larjona> END LOG
[19:07] <larjona> #############################################################