Add fuel service information #2822

naposm · 2021-04-29T10:15:49Z

This is the pull request for #1827. I'll just add the updated screenshots here.

SCREESHOTS

Self service quest:

Full service quest

closes #1827

andrewharvey · 2021-04-29T10:24:48Z

I think disable for AU too. I've never seen a petrol station where a staff will pump fuel for you. They are all self service only, so not something we need a quest for here.

@dbdean any opinion?

matkoniecz · 2021-04-29T11:03:56Z

Note that full_service tag is barely used, just 200 uses worldwide so it may be a good idea to check on tagging mailing list is it a good idea to start adding it on all fuel stations (is it good enough for SC quest?).

Also, is it meaning even really clear?

naposm · 2021-04-29T11:28:31Z

Note that full_service tag is barely used, just 200 uses worldwide so it may be a good idea to check on tagging mailing list is it a good idea to start adding it on all fuel stations (is it good enough for SC quest?).

I'm taking this in consideration, that's why it's a draft.

EDIT: I found a discussion about this from 2015.

Also, is it meaning even really clear?

The term is on the Cambridge dictionary, so I think it is. Maybe a better term could be used for the tag, but for the quest I think that's what it should ask.

dbdean · 2021-04-29T13:34:08Z

I think disable for AU too. I've never seen a petrol station where a staff will pump fuel for you. They are all self service only, so not something we need a quest for here.

@dbdean any opinion?

Well, we do have one in Armidale that pump fuel for you. My wife loves it, but it's to weird for me so I avoid using them :) I don't recall seeing one before in any other place I've lived though.

westnordost · 2021-04-29T13:46:50Z

Just a short comment on the icon:
The upmost one looks oddly out of focus (left car, right person). The one with the blue man a little bit small - maybe the fuel pump or the man could be made larger, so that they are not next to each other but a little bit in front of each other

trigpoint · 2021-05-07T16:12:13Z

Whilst I am aware that one or two US states make self serve illegal, this should be disabled for the United Kingdom and probably most of mainland Europe where unstaffed pay at pump is very much the norm.

matkoniecz · 2021-06-03T16:23:59Z

What was outcome of full_service discussion? From cursory look it appears that meaning of that term is quite unclear and/or duplicate of self_service.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfuel#Service mentions it right now but without any hint about meaning.

letypequividelespoubelles · 2021-06-17T12:15:32Z

this should be disabled for the United Kingdom and probably most of mainland Europe where unstaffed pay at pump is very much the norm.

+1 It should be disabled too for non-continental French territories (such as Réunion, Guyane, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Mayotte) where, contrary to mainland France, all pumps are staffed.

naposm · 2021-06-26T08:40:06Z

What was outcome of full_service discussion? From cursory look it appears that meaning of that term is quite unclear and/or duplicate of self_service.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfuel#Service mentions it right now but without any hint about meaning.

There were a lot of great ideas and opinions, but there was not a precise outcome, the full service tag is both praised and hated as I can understand, because there are only few countries where this could be useful.
So I was thinking the opposite, since I don't want to make another Italy-centric quest, I was thinking about some options:

Make a survey and understand which countries could actually benefit from this quest (so the full_service tag is considered ok)
Only ask for self_service in selected countries (same as above but full_service is assumed, with self_service=only being a option.
Change the way this is asked, ask which kind of services the fuel station offers (cards with images and full, self service, both)
Just remove the quest for every country (close the PR)

westnordost · 2021-07-08T15:10:08Z

Sorry for not getting back at you earlier.

I'd say, keep it simple first. Option 2 sounds good:

only ask in countries where some fuel stations are self service and others are not-self-service (Italy?)
ask only for self_service . The wording "does X offer self service?" sounds a a bit odd. They offer nothing if there is self service. Didn't think about htis a lot yet if there is a better wording that makes it possible to answer with yes/no. If not, it may be better to either have a picture select or a radio button select (like in AddInternetAccessForm)

naposm · 2021-07-20T13:45:41Z

No problem, don't worry, I understand that everyone here has their own life too and StreetComplete is a very big project to deal with, so don't have to apologize 🙂.

To understand which countries could benefit from the quest we could ask on the forum if you agree, I think that you being German can confirm it's not useful for you, on the other hand I can say that for me here in Italy would be useful (I've seen some gas stations which were closed at night, since they are full service only, also in some major cities, usually very small ones).
As for the wording, not being a native English speaker is a barrier for me, but I am open to suggestions, if I can find a better wording I'll post it here. The image suggestion is a very good idea, since we already have the full service icon which would be lost, we could integrate it and make images to ask something like:

"Can you refuel using self service at GAS STATION?" (please help me with the wording)

image with the stickman pumping their own gas
"It is self service only" (tag: self_service=only)

image with the stickman pumping their own gas and a worker
"Self service is possible" (tag: self_service=yes)

image with a big red circle (the one used for no pedestrians allowed) on the stickman pumping their own gas
"No, you can't use self service here"

By the way, congratulations for your State of the Map talk, you did a great job! 🥳

timothywashere · 2021-11-24T12:52:29Z

Many rural petrol stations in the UK are Full Service only. You're not allowed to "pump your own gas".
I think the question has value in the UK even if all Urban stations are Self-service.

It's also important that the wording does not confuse users with the difference between Self-service and Pay@Pump, which is becoming very popular in the UK.

naposm · 2022-01-09T18:42:43Z

Thanks for the information @timothywashere, sorry if I noticed your comment just now!

By the way I was thinking about removing the full service question altogether and just leaving the self service one, that I think has more relevant use cases, as usually it's obvious that where there's no self service, there must be full service (your statement is an example).

I would really like to show it everywhere, as what you said is basically my use case for Italy. I'd like to find a way to show the quest only to relevant gas stations all over the world except the few cases where it's restricted by law (example in USA). I don't know if there's a way to find elements near the gas station or if that would be useful, but that would be great.

I proposed this quest when there was the lockdown and maps like Ca reste ouvert only showed gas station with the self service tag as open. I still think that having this information could be useful for some purposes in the future, but implementing the quest doesn't seem as simple as I initially thought it to be...

If @westnordost and @matkoniecz agree we could start merging the quest with only some selected countries to give it a push and get more feedback from users that would need it in their countries (the quest selection menu of the app would become an ad space basically).
I would review the various discussions and come with a small list of maximum 2-3 countries to begin, then maybe this will be extended in the future or a better solution to select gas stations will be found by some contributors.

(EDIT: forgot to say but of course I'll first need to make the changes before merging haha, I'm not asking to merge it as it is, just asking for feedback about it becoming basically a very limited quest)

westnordost · 2022-01-09T22:29:03Z

Just self service yes / no should be an easy yes/no question and would be very easy to implement. The "complicated" part would be to research in which countries it should be enabled. I.e. where do both exist. It is okay to only start with 1-few countries, it is not necessary to research for the whole world.

mnalis · 2022-01-09T22:44:59Z

I proposed this quest when there was the lockdown and maps like Ca reste ouvert only showed gas station with the self service tag as open. I still think that having this information could be useful for some purposes in the future, but implementing the quest doesn't seem as simple as I initially thought it to be...

Oh, wait, why would covid-19 lockdown be indicative of that? It seems like they/you consider self_service=yes to mean "without cashiers"?

My reading of self_service=yes is that it is about whether the service itself is provided by other humans, or do you do it yourself. I.e. in case of fuel pump, do you put the nozzle into your car reservoir yourself, or if employee does it for you. But not if the human employee is involved with the payment for the goods/services.

So I interpret it the same as it is with other tags listed in self_service=* (like canteen, restaurant, fast_food... if self_service=yes you will grab food yourself, but there is still usually human cashier at the end of the line to whom you pay for the food)

So I think self_service=yes is a bad proxy for indicating there is no human interaction needed at the location complete the transaction. For example, in Croatia, almost all fuel stations are self_service=yes, but most of them are also automated=no -- ie. you'll fill the tank yourself, but then go inside to pay to the human cashier (which won't help you much in reducing COVID-19 transmissions, as there would still be lots of human interactions)

I think automated=yes is the closest tag to indicate whether you'll have to interact with other humans to finish the job or not. If we want to indicate fully automated fuel station without any humans onboard, it would probably need to be marked self_service=only + automated=yes.

(note: In this review I do not even analyze full_service as you're not sure if you'll implement it)

TL;DR: please make clear a distinction whether the quest is about if the users needs to perform service themselves (ie. self_service=yes) or whether it is about whether there are any cashiers you need to interact with or not (ie. automated=no/yes). Or does the quest intent to cover both of those meanings?

naposm · 2022-01-09T23:43:59Z

The "complicated" part would be to research in which countries it should be enabled. I.e. where do both exist.

Yes, that was exactly what I meant with difficult, not the code per se, that fortunately, I must give credit for you and all contributors who worked on it, is very simple to write for basic quests even for a beginner like me 😁

Oh, wait, why would covid-19 lockdown be indicative of that?

I don't know why but it was like that, if I recall correctly there was a law here in Italy which demanded self service gas station (I'm not sure, might be wrong, more than a year passed), so maybe there was a similar one in France.

It seems like they/you consider self_service=yes to mean "without cashiers"?
My reading of self_service=yes is that it is about whether the service itself is provided by other humans, or do you do it yourself. I.e. in case of fuel pump, do you put the nozzle into your car reservoir yourself, or if employee does it for you. But not if the human employee is involved with the payment for the goods/services.
So I interpret it the same as it is with other tags listed in self_service=* (like canteen, restaurant, fast_food... if self_service=yes you will grab food yourself, but there is still usually human cashier at the end of the line to whom you pay for the food)

Yes, usually I meant self service without cashier, but you're right I have sometimes found self service where you paid to a cashier but pumped your own gas... You just made me think about it, I had never considered this 🤦‍‍♂️

I think automated=yes is the closest tag to indicate whether you'll have to interact with other humans to finish the job or not. If we want to indicate fully automated fuel station without any humans onboard, it would probably need to be marked self_service=only + automated=yes.

Mh... Maybe we need more than a quest. I just assumed automated=yes because I did not think about having self service with payment to a cashier, I just forgot that option, my bad. This quest would only ask for self service, but the automated quest could be added I think, maybe with another quest? If you have any ideas let me know 🤔

(note: In this review I do not even analyze full_service as you're not sure if you'll implement it)

You did well, I think that dealing with non standard tags might be dangerous at the moment... It's not very clear its utility and meaning so I think it's better to avoid it for now (to be honest I'm starting to doubt about its utility myself).

Thanks by the way for bringing to light the matter!

smichel17 · 2022-01-10T05:06:21Z

I think if a station has self service, and accepts credit cards, it can be *mostly* assumed that you do not have to interact with the cashier. At least in the US.

westnordost · 2022-01-10T12:52:39Z

In Germany, all stations have self service. You still need to go into the shop and pay for the gasoline.

…lete

naposm · 2022-01-15T15:58:02Z

Hi everyone! I removed the full service quest and made some changes to the full service one.

FloEdelmann · 2022-01-15T19:29:16Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/fuel_service/AddFuelSelfService.kt

+        }
+    }
+
+    override val enabledInCountries = NoCountriesExcept("IT")


Because of #2822 (comment), maybe it should be enabled in the UK?

Suggested change

override val enabledInCountries = NoCountriesExcept("IT")

override val enabledInCountries = NoCountriesExcept("IT", "UK")

Mh, I did not understand if it's really useful or not as it is now, @timothywashere what do you think?

Mh, I did not understand if it's really useful or not as it is now, @timothywashere what do you think?

I think it's useful and would like to see it.

Despite the fact that I used the phrase earlier, "Pump your own gas" isn't really appropriate in British English, as an Americanism it would offend a lot of people. I'm not sure what is a succinct correct phrase, "Dispense your own fuel?" I suppose.

If anyone objects to this quest in the UK an option would be to only shown the quest for small or unknown brands. You wouldn't get self-dispense at BP/Shell/Esso/Tesco/Morrisons/Asda/Sainsburys. But I am happy to answer this quest for all petrol stations so don't add that functionality unless someone else complains.

Also one pedantic query. Should it be "Can you.." or "Must you.." . Can implies a choice that isn't there (In the UK anyway).
For self service stations it's usually required that you operate the pump yourself, unless you are disabled and may be able to ask for help.
If it's not self service, then you are forbidden from operating the pump.

@timothywashere Thank you for the answer, not being English I'm unaware of what's correct and what isn't and can't appreciate the nuances between two wordings, if you can suggest a question for the tag I'd be very glad.

I added UK by the way, thank you!

If anyone objects to this quest in the UK an option would be to only shown the quest for small or unknown brands. You wouldn't get self-dispense at BP/Shell/Esso/Tesco/Morrisons/Asda/Sainsburys.

I don't know how this could be handled, maybe just remove all fuels with brand tags altogether?

res/graphics/quest icons/fuel_self_service.svg

westnordost

Thank you for your persistence! The wording sounds a bit off, otherwise it looks good.

westnordost · 2022-01-16T17:09:49Z

app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

@@ -604,6 +604,8 @@ Otherwise, you can download another keyboard in the app store. Popular keyboards
    <string name="quest_construction_steps_title">Are these steps completed?</string>
    <string name="quest_construction_generic_title">Is this way completed?</string>
    <string name="quest_construction_building_title">Is this building completed?</string>
+    <string name="quest_fuelSelfService_title">Can you pump your own gas at this fuel station?</string>


Sounds like you can bring your own gas to pump here.

Suggested change

<string name="quest_fuelSelfService_title">Can you pump your own gas at this fuel station?</string>

<string name="quest_fuelSelfService_title">Can you pump gas on your own at this fuel station?</string>

Mh I don't know how to write it because English isn't my mother tongue 😕 I trust @riQQ 😅

This is a preview (I also changed the icon):

I propose "Can you pump gas yourself at this fuel station?".

@timothywashere suggested something along the lines of "Dispense your own fuel?"

"Do you dispense your own fuel at .... ?"

"Do you operate the pump yourself at ...?"

In terms of absolute clarity I think maybe:
"Are the pumps at ... operated by the customer?"

But maybe I'm straying too far from the OSM tags and it should be
"Can the customer operate the pumps at ....?"

I also asked in OSM slack US channel #language:

Yes, undoubtably "Pump your own gas" is correct in American English.

naposm · 2022-01-16T18:49:09Z

Thank you for your persistence!

Hahah I hope this is a good thing 😂
I just love the app so I'm happy to give a contribution somehow 😁

westnordost · 2022-01-16T19:54:38Z

The icon is better now!

naposm · 2022-01-17T09:24:38Z

Thanks! The problem with the mask is still there unfortunately. I can't find any tutorial on how to make a mask like yours where the icon doesn't show the masked elements in Firefox 😔

westnordost · 2022-01-17T10:31:35Z

That's ok, I'll take care of it after merge

On 17 January 2022 10:24:49 CET, naposm ***@***.***> wrote: Thanks! The problem with the mask is still there unfortunately. I can't find any tutorial on how to make a mask like yours where the icon doesn't show the masked elements in Firefox 😔> > -- > Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:> #2822 (comment)> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.> > Message ID:

***@***.***>

…

-- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/fuel_service/AddFuelSelfService.kt

resolved

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/fuel_service/AddFuelSelfService.kt

westnordost · 2022-01-18T11:39:54Z

I think everything was OK with the mask, just that the viewer you used doesn't properly handle masks.

For this reason and because masks are only supported at a certain API level in Android (and otherwise they automatically get rasterized by the build process), I ususally "bake" the masks in. I did this now too with your icon. The way I do it in Inkscape: select both the circular background and the thing that should be masked by that circular background, select Path->Intersection (Ctrl+*). Copy the result and undo the last operation. Then, paste: Replace the original with the intersection result. Not sure if there is any mor estraightforward way to do it.

naposm · 2022-01-18T19:01:55Z

That was a surprise, thank you very much Tobias for merging! And thanks to FloEdelmann, timothywashere, mnalis, riQQ and anyone who helped out here and in the linked issues (too many people to thank)!

(small note @westnordost : I did not update wikiLink to Key:self_service because I did not check here until now, would you like me to submit a PR for that?)

P.S. Thank you for letting me know the Inkscape trick, I think it will be very useful to me, I looked it everywhere, I hate having that mask problem, so thank you very much!

westnordost · 2022-01-18T19:38:36Z

I already did it myself. FYI this will go into v40. Tomorrow or so I'll release v39.0

naposm · 2022-01-20T15:57:38Z

That's nice, thanks!

naposm and others added 3 commits April 28, 2021 22:50

Add fuel service

de24310

Various fixes + quest icons

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Fixed Full Service icon

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naposm added 2 commits April 29, 2021 12:26

Optimization

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Removed Australia

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Updated icons

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matkoniecz added the feedback required more info is needed, issue will be likely closed if it is not provided label Jun 3, 2021

westnordost removed the feedback required more info is needed, issue will be likely closed if it is not provided label Jul 24, 2021

naposm added 2 commits January 15, 2022 16:07

Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComp…

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…lete

Removed full service quest, edited self service quest

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naposm marked this pull request as ready for review January 15, 2022 15:49

Removed unused icon

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FloEdelmann reviewed Jan 15, 2022

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westnordost requested changes Jan 16, 2022

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Icon + title (temporary)

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FloEdelmann previously requested changes Jan 17, 2022

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naposm added 2 commits January 17, 2022 14:35

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Added UK

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naposm mentioned this pull request Jan 17, 2022

property defining changeset comments is now named changesetComment #3647

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westnordost changed the base branch from master to 40 January 18, 2022 10:47

westnordost merged commit 9a0f75e into streetcomplete:40 Jan 18, 2022

westnordost mentioned this pull request May 15, 2022

Update en-US strings to improve awkward phrasing #4030

Merged

	override val enabledInCountries = NoCountriesExcept("IT")
	override val enabledInCountries = NoCountriesExcept("IT", "UK")

	<string name="quest_fuelSelfService_title">Can you pump your own gas at this fuel station?</string>
	<string name="quest_fuelSelfService_title">Can you pump gas on your own at this fuel station?</string>

Add fuel service information #2822

Add fuel service information #2822

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