Add new quest to ask if a place is suitable for vegetarians or vegans #506

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T14:26:20Z

Here is the updated version of #499. The quest is now split into two seperate quests and each quest is a simple yes-no-dialog with an "Other answer" for "Only serves vegetarian/vegan food"
The vegetarian question looks like this:

And the vegan question looks like this:

westnordost · 2017-08-19T14:38:31Z

"suitable" invites somewhat subjective classification. Is this not defined any better?
If not, an explanatory text like for the wheelchair quest is necessary.

What is the rationale behind putting that answer into "Other answers"?

Do you have any suggestion for icon motives?

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T14:48:42Z

Do you have any suggestion for icon motives?

I would propose either the fork and knife emoji from twemoji or the fork, knife and spoon emoji from twemoji, because I think, there is nothing that could describe vegan or vegetarian...

"suitable" invites somewhat subjective classification. Is this not defined any better?

I have no idea, which other word we can use for that... Maybe an explanatory text like "Does this place explicitly offer no fish or meat?" for the vegetarian quest and "Does this place explicitly offer no fish, meat, dairy, eggs or any other animal product?" for the vegan quest. What do you think?

What is the rationale behind putting that answer into "Other answers"?

Because it would take too much place in the buttonpanel...

westnordost · 2017-08-19T15:06:13Z

Well I was thinking a leaf for either of the two and something else for the other one (or both).

I have no idea, which other word we can use for that...

Nothing helpful in the wiki? Your proposed questions are too long. Id propose "Does ... explicitly offer vegetarian food?" (instead of "suitable") but I don't know if this fits the definition in the wiki.

Because it would take too much place in the buttonpanel...

Even just "Only" / "Ausschließlich"?

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T15:35:57Z

Even just "Only" / "Ausschließlich"?

Maybe this could work, but the german word is much more longer than the english one... This can be a problem, because it could be displayed as:

AUS
SCHLIEß
LICH

especially on small devices... But I will test it anyway...

Nothing helpful in the wiki?

No, not really

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T19:49:47Z

Id propose "Does ... explicitly offer vegetarian food?" (instead of "suitable") but I don't know if this fits the definition in the wiki.

Yes, this fits the definition in the wiki. I am implementing this right now.

matkoniecz · 2017-08-19T20:05:34Z

I would amend

nodes, ways with ( amenity ~ restaurant|cafe|pub|fast_food|bar ) and diet:vegetarian and !diet:vegan

by

requiring also diet:vegetarian=yes or diet:vegetarian=only

as diet:vegetarian=no imply diet:vegan=no

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T20:11:48Z

diet:vegetarian=no imply diet:vegan=no

Should we add diet:vegan=no when, in vegetarian quest, No is clicked?

matkoniecz · 2017-08-19T20:23:00Z

Should we add diet:vegan=no when, in vegetarian quest, No is clicked?

Probably not, otherwise one should add also diet:fruitarian=no, diet:ovo_vegetarian=no, diet:lacto_vegetarian=no

Nothing helpful in the wiki?

No, not really

wiki has at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:diet

full options available : provides at least a proper choice for this option, constantly available (i.e full meal in a restaurant, specific section in shop)

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:diet

"constantly available" requirement may make tagging this tricky.

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T20:24:08Z

Even just "Only" / "Ausschließlich"?

I tested it right now, and contrary to my expections, it is possible to implement a button with "Only" in english and even "Ausschließlich" in german. It is not displayed like I said in the comment above.

ENT8R · 2017-08-19T20:25:29Z

Nothing helpful in the wiki?

I changed the question to "Does [..] explicitly offer vegan/vegetarian food?" I think this is much better!

westnordost · 2017-08-20T00:31:42Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/diet_type/AddVegan.java

+
+	@Override protected String getTagFilters()
+	{
+		return "nodes, ways with ( amenity ~ restaurant|cafe|pub|fast_food|bar ) and diet:vegetarian and !diet:vegan";


diet:vegetarian~yes|only
Because this quest shouldn't show if the user selected "no" in the vegetarian quest

Also, superfluous parenthesis.

westnordost · 2017-08-20T00:33:30Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/diet_type/AddVeganForm.java

+		}
+		else
+		{
+			setTitle(R.string.quest_dietType_vegan_title);


As usual, always require a name please. (So, add and name in the query)

westnordost · 2017-08-20T00:35:14Z

app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/diet_type/AddVegetarian.java

+
+	@Override protected String getTagFilters()
+	{
+		return "nodes, ways with ( amenity ~ restaurant|cafe|pub|fast_food|bar ) and !diet:vegetarian";


I need to ask here: Why bars and pubs? These are not primarily eating places. Especially bars not. (False friends for Germans. amenity=bar is not a German "Bar", that's a amenity=pub). amenity=bar is something like a coctail bar.

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T07:46:15Z

Everything you proposed is now implemented:

Other question: ("Does [..] explicitly offer vegan/vegetarian food?")
Reordered answers: Only/Ausschließlich is now an extra button next to Yes and No
Removed pub and bar from the query
Added name to the query
Removed superfluous parenthesis

westnordost · 2017-08-20T11:44:05Z

Okay, cool. Aren't the two forms now not exactly the same though? You can set the title from the outside (in createForm() method).

I can only merge this after I created an icon for this and implemented some country whitelist/blacklist. Remember, I talked about that this quest should only be activated in a certain set of countries (first). I.e. in detail, it should only be activated

In "meat-countries": Countries where it is common that most/many dishes will have meat in them. So, these are usually countries with both an industrialized agriculture (so probably not most of Africa) and where eating meat is seen as a desirable thing (so not India and Bhuddist countries I'd say)
(And thus where) veganism / vegetarianism is culturally a thing
Question is whether it should rather be a white- or blacklist. I usually prefer a whitelist.

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T14:14:14Z

Aren't the two forms now not exactly the same though? You can set the title from the outside (in createForm() method)

This is implemented now!

rugk · 2017-08-20T15:19:45Z

Well I was thinking a leaf for either of the two and something else for the other one (or both).

No, please don't. This clashes with #366 and/or #83. Better really use 🥄/🍴 or so… I doubt you'll creating another quest related to eatery… 😉

However I understand why you want to use 🍃. Another idea: Maybe color the fork and knife in green in the icon? For vegetarian only cover one part, for vegan color both…

rugk · 2017-08-20T15:28:11Z

As for an explanatory text to clarify when one should select yes (because that is not obvious when a restaurant e.g. offers one vegetarian dish and the rest is just with meat) I'd suggest to use the text, which is used in @Rudloff's OpenVegeMap:

If in doubt: only places that provide a proper choice for an option should be tagged yes. For instance, a restaurant with vegetarian starters but no vegetarian main course is to be tagged no. Same for, a pub that can't serve more than light snacks (baked potato, green salad) to vegetarians.

(shorten it a bit and use it as a small grey explanatory text)

I suggested this, e.g.:

A <type of amenity> fulfills the criteria if there is a proper choice of dishes.

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T15:51:27Z

Good idea! I will implement this now!

rugk · 2017-08-20T16:22:46Z

The icon? Okay, but use a proper fork & knife icon as a template and then just apply a color filter or so…

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T16:42:46Z

The icon?

No no, I mean the explanatory text.

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T18:37:32Z

Aren't the two forms now not exactly the same though? You can set the title from the outside (in createForm() method)

This is implemented now!

I think I have to revert the changes I made, because I can't get the name tag of the building from outside the form.
At the moment I'm trying to do this:
public AbstractQuestAnswerFragment createForm() { AbstractQuestAnswerFragment form = new AddDietTypeForm(); String name = form.getElementName(); if(name != null) { form.setTitle(R.string.quest_dietType_vegan_name_title, name); } return form; }
But if I execute this, the app crashes...
Do you have an idea how to do this?

westnordost · 2017-08-20T18:39:52Z

Yes, that doesn't work that way. But doesn't matter, the way how the quest titles are set changes after when I merged the undo branch, then it is possible this way. So, just leave it that way, I will fix it after the merge.

However, such an explanatory text as rugk mentioned would be nice.

ENT8R · 2017-08-20T18:41:11Z

Oh, this is perfect! Then I will push the latest changes now.

rugk · 2017-08-20T19:08:27Z

BTW does it even make sense to ask for vegetarian for cafés? I mean I have never seen a cafe, where you can eat meat cake or bones. (possibly only galantine, but which cafe offers gummy bears?? And even if they did, they would still have enough dishes for vegetarians.)
Asking for vegan is of course fine, because of milk or so, but vegetarian? As I mentioned before Starbucks is sometimes tagged as vegan, so uhmm… (Do they even sell anything else than ☕ coffee?)

westnordost · 2017-08-20T19:39:03Z

BTW does it even make sense to ask for vegetarian for cafés?

Yes it does.

rugk · 2017-08-20T19:53:33Z

Most cafes are indeed vegetarian friendly but some of them serve breakfasts with things like bacon, sausage, etc.

I would still tag them as vegetarian, anyway. Because you likely can also get that without sausages and so one, and you have enough vegetarian things to choose from. As I said, "there is a proper choice of dishes", or as you explain on your site, the main dish for a cafe is coffee and cake and similar things. These are all vegetarian – it does not really mater that you can also get some bacon for breakfast there then.

Rudloff · 2017-08-20T20:05:07Z

IMHO this is a discussion that needs to happen on the OSM wiki so the tags can be more precisely defined.

rugk · 2017-08-20T20:15:44Z

@Rudloff Sure, we can also discuss something else, but I see that as a StreetComplete problem. The tags are all right. But in StreetComplete always a low number of false-positives is desirable, i.e. quests should not be shown in cases where it makes no sense, e.g. because they are always true (as the meaning is implied). That's the whole reason why I am asking. If we would exclude cafès from the vegetarian quest, (but include it in the vegan quest) then we would not have to ask that (IMHO, useless) question to surveyors.
I understand the tags as "suitable for vegetarians" and also base that assumption on your description on your website. I think this is okay/reasonable, as there is also an "only" tag, so really… the OSM part is okay.
And according to your description this also applies to Starbucks (milk and vegan cakes). In reality you cannot get a cafe, where you cannot get a proper choice of vegetarian products. They are always vegetarian.

Rudloff · 2017-08-20T20:54:10Z

Well in that case, even I do think it is useful to tag cafes, I understand your point and won't oppose not asking if they are vegetarian in StreetComplete.

# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/AbstractQuestAnswerFragment.java

- Provide additional descriptions for each diet type (easily extendable for other diets - halal etc.) - Improve description - Simplify quest <-> form communication - Set quest title properly - remove mentioning the type of place, this doesn't work in localization

westnordost · 2017-08-24T18:32:29Z

Correction to what I said in the commit comment: It would work, since it is nominative, but I'd like to not add strings where they are not necessary.

westnordost · 2017-08-24T18:33:16Z

So, this PR is blocked by defining a country whitelist of where the quest should be shown. See #506 (comment)

#535

Rudloff · 2017-08-24T18:51:51Z

Wikipedia has some data on the percentage of vegetarians per country. Maybe it can help (if a country has data it means that vegetarianism is a thing there?).

rugk · 2017-08-24T20:40:18Z

Great idea.

rugk · 2017-08-27T15:10:06Z

I created the YAML file based on the Wikipedia data there: https://gist.github.com/rugk/aac00507c825ccdb5df0526b09007942

However, this of course only includes ethical vegetarianism. In some countries people may just not afford meat – at least in restaurants. Although I am not sure that in such cases there are much restaurants (except for tourism) or so… However, for tourism the local data (I gathered from Wikipedia here) would not matter either, again…

rugk · 2017-08-27T20:04:59Z

app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

+    <string name="quest_dietType_vegetarian_name_title">Does "%s" explicitly offer vegetarian food?</string>
+    <string name="quest_dietType_vegan_name_title">Does "%s" explicitly offer vegan food?</string>
+    <string name="quest_hasFeature_only">Only</string>
+    <string name="quest_dietType_explanation_vegan">Vegan meals contain no animal products (no meat, no milk products, no eggs,…).</string>


A space before …/after the comma is missing.

rugk · 2017-08-27T20:15:09Z

app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

@@ -388,4 +388,10 @@ Otherwise, you can download another keyboard in the app store. Popular keyboards
    <string name="quest_parkingType_surface">Normal</string>
    <string name="quest_parkingType_underground">Underground garage</string>
    <string name="quest_parkingType_multiStorage">Car park</string>
+    <string name="quest_dietType_vegetarian_name_title">Does "%s" explicitly offer vegetarian food?</string>


I have a problem with "explicitly" here. The explanation in quest_dietType_explanation may hopefully be sufficient, but with this "explicitly" I would not tag a restaurant offering 2-4 meals as "vegetarian". Is that intended? Would not 2-4 meals be enough for a restaurant?

I understood "explicitly" as meaning that vegetarian meals are on the menu and you don't need to ask for them (e.g. "Can I have this but without the meat, please?").

Ah, that's a different way than I understood it. Maybe change it to "offer on it's menu"?

rugk · 2017-08-27T20:26:14Z

As for the icon, you do not want to use the colored 🍴 I proposed earlier?

I see you created this icon obviously for this quest, but still we need two icons: One for vegan and one for vegetarian. And if we just add a "+" to vegetarian and "++" to vegan, or the same thing with starts or maybe even with carrots or so, but there should be a visual difference.

rugk · 2017-09-13T16:06:36Z

BTW this PR is now unblocked.

habi · 2017-10-06T19:42:28Z

A logo for the vegetarian places could be http://vegetarianmark.net

amandasaurus · 2017-10-17T09:42:18Z

Perhaps I'm too late to the conversation, but I have some feedback on the (English) wording.

I think the original wording of "suitable for vegetarians" is the correct English term for what diet:vegetarian=yes means. It means there is at least one proper vegetarian option available. Asking "Does "%s" explicitly offer vegetarian food?" seems weird and, honestly, a little aggressive. "Does %s offer vegetarian food?" is better, but not as good as "suitable for vegetarians". Likewise for vegan.

I suggest some form of V for a logo for vegetarian, since that's commonly used on menus or on food in supermarkets in my experience. But I'm not sure what do for vegan.

ENT8R · 2017-10-18T12:45:54Z

I will change the wording a little bit.

westnordost · 2017-10-18T13:55:47Z

Hmm wait, that the wording was set to "explicitly" was result of the prior discussion. @rory did neither refute nor even respond these arguments.

To recap, the reason why "explicitly" is mentioned (and explicitly can mean as little as that on their menu, they have a section "Vegetarian menus"), is, that if it is not explicitly mentioned that something is vegetarian, one cannot assume that a particular dish is vegetarian.
Also, we discussed and established earlier that the surveyor cannot be asked to scan through the entire menu and assess based on the names (or ingredients, if they are even given) of the dishes, whether there is something vegetarian. Also, the menu will sometimes not even be accessible from outside the restaurant.

I.e. for "Bratkartoffeln" (fried potatoes) in Germany, it can be the case, that there is some ham inside as well, without that it is explicitly mentioned on the menu. Many dishes that seem to be vegetarian / vegan may not actually be. It should not be in the responsibility of the surveyor to sort this out (by interviewing the chef??). This is even more important for vegan, since many people have no idea in which all products there are actually animal products. (Wine, I hear, as well).

I would find it much worse to tag a place wrongly as diet:vegetarian=yes as to place a tag wrongly as diet:vegetarian=no. The diet tag is used for planning to go to a destination. Obviously, a tagging based on an assumption ("well, this looks vegetarian") has little value (for vegetarians). There must be a certainty, and I think this can only be easily achieved by looking for whether the restaurant explicitly mentions having veg dishes.

Of course, thinking of India, where vegetarian restaurants are more the norm than not, no restaurant will actually "explicitly" mention that they have veg food (because everything on their menu is). But currently, I think the users will have enough common sense to tag a "only-vegetarian-without-explicitly-mentioning-it"-restaurant not as diet:vegetarian=no. Also, as far as I know, India is quite the exception there.

Just removing the "explicitly" is not the right solution. I was thinking of "...caters to..." but I am not native speaker, so it could be that "caters to" is actually even harder than "explicitly". So I find "explicitly" the best alternative here.

amandasaurus · 2017-10-18T14:36:21Z

You're right, I didn't address the original points. However I would content that "Is [place] suitable for vegetarians?" is exactly what diet:vegetarian=yes means. That there is at least a full vegetarian meal option available. Maybe it's just clear to me as a native English speaker....

ENT8R · 2017-10-18T15:02:44Z

Hmm wait, that the wording was set to "explicitly" was result of the prior discussion.

😁😂 It is so long ago that I created this PR that I forgot that...

# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/QuestModule.java # app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

…that (and other disabled quests) Also: - add an icon for vegetarian quest - slightly change texts

Add quest to ask if a place is suitable for vegetarians or vegans

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Changed question, answers and query

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Reduced code by making one form instead of two

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rugk mentioned this pull request Aug 20, 2017

Quest: is this restaurant suitable for vegetarians? #479

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westnordost self-assigned this Aug 20, 2017

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Add explanation to quest

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westnordost added 2 commits August 24, 2017 19:25

Merge branch 'master' into diet-type

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# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/AbstractQuestAnswerFragment.java

A few enhancements:

757ba9a

- Provide additional descriptions for each diet type (easily extendable for other diets - halal etc.) - Improve description - Simplify quest <-> form communication - Set quest title properly - remove mentioning the type of place, this doesn't work in localization

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westnordost added the blocked blocked by another issue label Aug 24, 2017

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westnordost self-assigned this Oct 18, 2017

Merge branch 'master' into diet-type

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# Conflicts: # app/src/main/java/de/westnordost/streetcomplete/quests/QuestModule.java # app/src/main/res/values/strings.xml

westnordost removed the blocked blocked by another issue label Nov 13, 2017

make diet type quests disabled by default and add an explanation for …

e7c19b5

…that (and other disabled quests) Also: - add an icon for vegetarian quest - slightly change texts

westnordost merged commit 02954a1 into streetcomplete:master Nov 13, 2017

ENT8R deleted the diet-type branch November 15, 2017 14:55

Add new quest to ask if a place is suitable for vegetarians or vegans #506

Add new quest to ask if a place is suitable for vegetarians or vegans #506

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