Attack table

[magey]

• Figure out what's going on with block chance - Mobs cannot block more than 5% of attacks
• Confirm no benefit to crit suppression from weapon skill - Confirmed by our data and by Beaza
• Confirm the amount of miss % reduction from weapon skill - Converged to 2% at +5 skill vs +3 mobs
• Ask hunters to check for crit suppression - Verified to be present by WatchYourSixx
• Dodge: confirm 5%, 5.5%, 6.0%, 6.5% for +0, +1, +2, +3 mobs
• Confirm parry % for +1 and +2 mobs
• Confirm whether glance penalty reductions continue to match Beaza's formula
• Confirm we don't miss specials and non-dw whites with 8% hit
• Confirm that dual-wield miss % penalty is additional 19% or some other number, and is it the same for +0 thru +3 mobs

---

For a summary of all known mechanics and test data see this wiki entry.

For our analysis on aura crit suppression see this wiki entry.

[ohganot]

Current Private Server formula, only the 300-305 wepskill range seems to be inaccurate for Classic Beta.

Skill Difference	Multiplier
15	0,65
14	0,7018
13	0,7469
12	0,786
11	0,8203
10	0,85
9	0,8759
8	0,8984
7	0,918
6	0,9351
5	0,95
4	0,9629
3	0,9742
2	0,984
1	0,9926
0	1

Parry chance seems abnormally high vs +3 level mob.

[magey]

We need to test different types of mobs to see if the parry/crit penalties are consistent.

[magey]

Some clues I've found regarding the very high parry chance:

• Evil Empire guide by Satrina about glancing blows from 2006-07-21 lists boss parry chance as 5.6%, the accepted/tested vanilla value
• A post on the WoW forums from 2006-08-25 listing boss parry chance as 5.6%
• Wowpedia edit from 2008-07-09 (TBC era) with the comment Finally got around to updating this section to modern values for the dodge/miss/glancing chances which changes boss parry chance from 5.6% (the accepted vanilla value) to 'At least 10%'.
• Wowwiki edit from 2009-06-22 (WotLK era) with the comment 'Updated for level 80', which changes the parry chance from 9% to 10%
• And finally, a Wowwiki edit from 2010-10-19 (Cata era) with the comment 'Updated boss's parry chance to the current 14%'

[ohganot]

So they have left in retail boss parry chance probably.. +3 levels means boss attack table basically, so it jumps to 14%

[kaleharbick]

backstab miss with 8% hit from EJ:

[GuybrushGit]

The 8% hit cap confirmed by blue post gives more credibility to Beaza's posts on wowwiki back in the day. He came out of nowhere and also claimed a 8% hit cap.

This is his glance reduction formula, which also seems to match the data posted above:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Weapon_skill?direction=prev&oldid=362572#Glancing_Blow_damage_reduction

This formula is also very similar to the confirmed WOTLK formula:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130209181158/http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t37804-warrior_fury_compendium/

I think its safe to assume that glancing reduction is then a range between:
Low end: 1.3 - 0.05*(defense-skill) capped at 0.91
High end: 1.2 - 0.03*(defense-skill) capped at 0.99

[kaleharbick]

agreed

[kaleharbick]

stuff we still want to test:

1. dodge: confirm 5%, 5.5%, 6.0%, 6.5% for +0, +1, +2, +3 mobs
2. figure out what's going on with block if they don't answer my question
3. confirm there is no benefit to crit suppression from weapon skill
4. confirm the amount of miss % reduction from weapon skill
5. confirm parry % for +1 and +2 mobs
6. confirm whether glance penalty reductions continue to match beaza's formula
7. confirm we don't miss specials and non-dw whites with 8% hit
8. confirm that dw miss % penalty is additional 19% or some other number, and is it the same for +0 thru +3 mobs
9. tell hunters to check for crit suppression

[magey]

I updated the OP with our current task list and moved the individual test breakdown to the wiki entry about attack tables here https://github.com/magey/classic-warrior/wiki/Attack-table

[GuybrushGit]

Came across a comment that could explain the Vem screenshot:

In addition, while our tests have indicated that players are getting the intended 5% miss rate while using a single max-skill weapon against even level enemies (yes, we've tested this exhaustively, and cannot reproduce the 9% miss rate you're reporting for normal swings), we have found the bug causing abilities (ie: heroic strike, sunder armor, etc) to miss around 9-10% of the time under the above conditions instead of the intended 5%.
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/69365-18-02-05-kalgans-response-to-warriors/

So at the time there was a bug causing yellow attack abilities to have a higher base miss than expected.

[TyrsDev]

8. confirm that dw miss % penalty is additional 19% or some other number, and is it the same for +0 thru +3 mobs

Assuming that the 1H chance to miss calculations (before +% Hit gear and talents etc) is (using a +3 Level mob as an example):
= Base + (ΔLevel * 1%)
= 5% + 3%
= 8%

Could it be possible that (with DW as 0 or 1) the full chance to miss calculation is something along the lines of this?
= Base + (DW * 10%) + (ΔLevel * (1% + (DW * 3%)))
= 5% + 10% + (3 * (1% + 3%))
= 15% + 12%
= 27%

What this would mean is:

1. You start with a Base chance to Miss of 5%.
   1a. If you Dual Wield, add +10% to this Base chance to Miss.
2. Increase chance to Miss by 1% per differenc in Level (against higher level enemies).
   2a. If Dual Wielding, increase by 4% per Level instead.

If this idea bears any truth, Dual Wielding against an enemy your own level should have a base chance to Miss of 15% (since ΔLevel in the above suggested formula equals to 0).

Edit:
Similarly, it could be possible that the chance of being Parried increases by 3% per ΔLevel.
5%, 8%, 11%, 14%.

[femdead]

wonder if LH will change their formulas to match classic beta
also, just to clarify - does crit reduction and increased parry chance only apply to player attacking high level mob, or do lower level players/mobs attacking me grant me crit reduction and extra parry?

[akylko]

Please test +2 level targets with 150 and 155 weapon skills.
In case +2 level targets will have 14% parry with 150 weapon skill and less than 14% parry with 155 weapon skill, it will means that weapon skill and defence skill difference affects on parry chance but not levels difference. And there will be separate formula for 0-9 skills difference.

[magey]

Added some initial results for +2 and +1 level mobs without any weapon skill bonus. Data provided by dmzor#3092.

[magey]

Added results for +3 level target with +2 weapon skill bonus from dmzor#3092. Although the sample size is low (1200) we can clearly see 27% glance damage penalty at 13 defense/skill delta, as predicted by Beaza's formula.

[magey]

Latest blue post over here finally explains the missed backstab in the 8% hit screenshot; the first 1% of hit from gear is ignored when the difference between your weapon skill and the target's defense skill is bigger than 10. So this means that with no weapon skill bonus, while your chance to miss is 8% your effective hit cap is 9%. I updated the wiki accordingly.

[nimeral]

Hm, so the effective hit cap is 9%, and <=10 weapon-defense difference adds 1% hit.

Also, apparently Beaza's glancing reduction formula is correct.

Do we know if all the other effects of weapon-defense difference are as we expected? I.e. (only) 0.04% difference in parries/dodges/blocks/hits/crits?

[GuybrushGit]

More weight for Baeza's formula, checked 2 of the combat logs:

The damage variance on glances indicate a range rather than the static reduction private servers have.

[Malchar]

Thank you for all of this great work. Reading through, I am having some confusion about exactly which factors depend on "difference(player level, mob level)" and which factors depend on "difference(weapon skill, defense skill)". The blue posts seem to make no differentiation between the two. However, we know the classic example of glancing blow chance, which depends on difference(player level, mob level).

As I review some of the data, it appears that the "Critical Strike chance is reduced by 1% per each additional level the target has over the player. " only depends on difference(player level, mob level) as well, so perhaps weapon skill does not increase crit chance against higher level mobs? I reference the above-posted data "Target at +3 levels, +5 weapon skill (6.37% crit chance, n=4064)", showing "Crit: 3.62% ±0.59% (147)" which gives a 95% confidence that the crit chance has been reduced by 3% even though the weapon skill difference is only 10.

Either way, it would be very useful to clarify exactly whether we are talking about difference(player level, mob level) or difference(weapon skill, defense skill) in each calculation.

[magey]

Updated results for +3 levels target with +5 weapon skill using new data from Puffymuffins and Towneh.

[nimeral]

If the target is a mob and defense minus attack rating is 11 or more:
    MissChance = 5% + (TargetLevel*5 - AttackerSkill) * 0.2%

If the target is a mob and defense minus attack rating is 10 or less:
    MissChance = 5% + (TargetLevel*5 - AttackerSkill) * 0.1%

If the target is a player:
    MissChance = 5% + (PlayerDefense - AttackerSkill) * 0.04%

I wish Blizz have confirmed this part, implying 6% raid yellow hit cap on 305 weapon skill. Although it does seem true from the experiments.

Free 2% hit for humans and orcs is, idk, unexpected :D And doesn't it mean a huge change of value of Accuria and DFT..?

Edit: nevermind, I'm dumb, it's effectively the same hit cap as on private servers, no big reason to doubt the tests.

[mako-taco]

The formula we know the most about is dodge, from blue posts:

5% + (level difference) * 0.5%

And from ancient blue posts on weapon skill that state it reduces the chance to X by 0.04% per point, I think it's reasonable to assume this:

5% + (level difference) * 0.5% + (def skill - weapon skill) * 0.04

This is so incredibly simple. When you apply the same constants to parry, you get another simple formula that matches our data for 0-2 level difference:

5% + (level difference) * 0.5% + (def skill - weapon skill) * 0.04

All thats left now is the mechanism for stepping us to 14% when there's a large level gap. Changing the coefficient for level difference based on a large level gap is simple, and fits the data.

5% + (level difference) * (level gap > 2 ? %3 : 0.5%) + (def skill - weapon skill) * 0.04

I guess my point is that we should be trying to find the simplest formulae that fit the data. There's no reason a programmer would go out of their way to make this system so complex... let's take a lesson from physics and strive to find an equation that's "pretty"

[GuybrushGit]

The post above me is nonsense.

[magey]

@mako-taco we know the exact formula for Dodge because Beaza gave it to us; see here. As for Parry, all we can do is guess for now until more extensive testing is done.

[magey]

Updated results for +3 levels target with +5 weapon skill using more data from Towneh and Vilius.

[watchyoursixx]

If you want more samples for ranged I can do so, but otherwise you can remove "tell hunters to check for crit suppression" based on the most recent log I sent you magey

[Phibs77]

Are there any plans to test with more than +5 weapon skill? (Rogue talent + Human)

[GeorgieTragnar]

Could you confirm Baeza's notes about dualwielding? https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Miss?oldid=347982

Dual-wielding is a special case. The chance to miss on each weapon is 80% times the chance calculated above, plus 20%. If a miss chance calculated as above comes out to 5% then dual-wielding increases this miss chance to 24% (which is 80% * 5% + 20%) for each weapon. A 10% miss chance with one weapon would become a 28% chance for each dual-wielded weapon, and so on.

which basically means that with 0 bonus weapon skill you should have according to him 26.4% to miss when dualwielding?

[cannonpalms]

@magey Need to separate gear/auras/base stats when reporting attack table tests. A single value for crit is no longer sufficiently descriptive now that this has come to light.

[magey]

I've removed all the test breakdowns from this issue because they were just duplicates of what we have on the wiki page and were often out-of-date.

[illutian]

The Parry formula appears to be:

5+(Target Defense - Weapon Skill)*0.2 for those mobs that are +0, +1 or +2; I used the attack tables and moved the Parry percentages up to the nearest whole number, and both had 'x' equal to 1/5 (or 0.2)

EDIT: Did the math for +0 mobs, any value for 'x' would work, but since '0.2' is the only one that works for 'x' and keeps the rounded value very near what the actual tests show...I figure '0.2' still.

For +3 mobs it appears to be: 5+(target defense - weapon skill)*0.6. This was found by using the 14% parry chance Blizzard confirms is suppose to be there.

Formula used: 5+(target defense - weapon skill)*x = 'rounded up parry percentages from attack tables listed on this project'. Except where +3, which I used Blizzard's stated percentage.

+0 mob Parry: 4.97%; rounded up to 5%
+1 mob Parry: 5.75%; rounded up to 6%
+2 mob Parry: 6.55%; rounded up to 7%
+3 mob Parry: 13.97%; set at 14% (as per Blizzard statement)