-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 4
VirtualInfrastructure
This page provides some historical and statistical background to the discussion on modernizing the DELPH-IN collaboration infrastructure during the 2020 Annual Summit.
$ whois delph-in.net | grep Date
Updated Date: 2019-12-04T14:35:04
Creation Date: 2002-12-19T21:45:28
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2020-12-19T21:45:28
In 2020, some 50,000 visits to DELPH-IN web pages per month (excluding SVN, WeSearch, and probably the ERG demonstration).
Used to be hosted as part of Norwegian HPC services (at Oslo University), which gave premium up-time and availability. National HPC is moving away from Oslo (to Northern Norway, later to Finland), which will make it harder for StephanOepen to continue support of these services.
Hosted in Mediawiki (1.16) with MySQL back-end. Maintained by the DELPH-IN standing committee (average two edits per year since 2013; last edit in August 2017). Practically unmaintained ... candidate for removal.
Also used to serve non-versioned content for download, e.g. the materials from most previous summits and bulk like release versions of DeepBank, the WeSearch Corpus, etc. One might want to spring-clean a little (possibly consulting the web server logs) to determine which of these remain active.
du -h -s * |egrep -v 'cle|events|oe|synsem|titan|favicon.ico|gfx|images|robots.txt|\.php|\.html'
304K 2006
7.7M 2009
19M 2010
28M 2011
44M 2012
43M 2013
21M 2014
16M 2016
31M 2017
26M 2020
288K bib
8.7M cdc
130M courses
616M deepbank
288K deler
845M ftp
68K generics.pdf
156K include
14M itsdb
2.9M jacy
4.0K lingo
830M logon.tgz
404K lui
381M redwoods
5.6G sdp
66M tsnlp
3.9G wescience
22M wesearch
8.0K wiki
100K wikiwoods
348K wordnet.pdf
Hosted in MoinMoin (version 1.9.3, current is 1.9.10; both require Python 2.7). Some 34,000 pages and 12,000 users (has been frequent target of spam attacks).
| repository | gbytes | revisions |
| LOGON | 99.9 | 3989 |
| ERG | 36 | 2090 |
| DeepBank | 27 | 1306 |
| LKB | 0.9 | 4724 |
| Burger | 0.002 | 5 |
| KRG | 0.3 | 107 |
Five or so (of originally 16+) mailing lists remain active (developers, erg, logon, sdp-users, and standing) remain active. Most are very low-traffic in recent years, with occasional spikes on developers. Archives are about 3.5 gbytes for 28,519 message (306 mbytes and 3084 messages for developers).
$ for i in 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020; do
echo -n "${i}: "; egrep -- "-[a-z]{3}-${i} " pure.txt | wc -l; done;
2010: 3578
2011: 5124
2012: 5653
2013: 8419
2014: 17703
2015: 26950
2016: 69790
2017: 85862
2018: 263998
2019: 59154
2020: 222654
Built using Java Enterprise technologies (Apache Jena, Apache Tomcat, and others), hence near-trivial to maintain and adapt for adult software engineers. The original developer (MilenKouylekov) has moved on, so remaining support at UiO (practically) is limited to keeping the current versions running in support of the Semantic Dependency Parsing community. Hosted on (what used to be) relatively 'beefy' hardware (256 gbytes of RAM, 2 tbytes of solid-state RAID5).
http://sweaglesw.org/linguistics/ace/ http://sweaglesw.org/linguistics/libtsdb/art.html
http://matrix.ling.washington.edu/customize/matrix.cgi
https://delphinqa.ling.washington.edu/
http://delph-in.github.io/delphin-viz/demo/
EMB: Wiki is really valuable still -- migrate?
EMB: WeSearch: Some work at UW on addressing rot/adding features, but we aren't hosting.
oe: Apology to UW -- the improved software that fixes some known bugs isn't running currently for want of someone who has time & knowledge to load improved app into the Tomcat software.
Glenn: Candidate for removal outward facing web pages -- not visited, not useful, and blocks Google access sometimes. End up on those pages from searches rather than here (wiki?).
Francis: I spend more time with MediaWiki than moinmoin, so it would be great to migrate. There are scripts, but imperfect. In WordNet this year we applied for and got accepted into Google Season of Docs. Maybe could do that for DELPH-IN next year with a paid technical writer? Otherwise it's hard to imagine who would do the work of checking & rewriting.
Francis: Could lessen some of oe's burden by moving from svn to github, with good interaction with issue trackers. But I'm feeling the worry that no one feels that they can host something like WeSearch. We're having trouble serving things also at NTU (CITS making it harder to do these things). If the two big DELPH-IN sites Oslo & UW think they can't do this, we have to buy a server or... Feeling worried about that.
Olga: Honest question (no strong opinion): About hosting things yourself... I understand why one would like to host things themselves, but I also wonder at what point does it become similar to wanting to have your own electricity or to be your own ISP? I'm not saying that's the case, but I'm just wondering if we are in fact headed in that direction.
oe: I've been a proponent of hosting, in part because of the branding opportunities but also in part because of the ownership and control that it gives. When SourceForge folded, Google Code went away and that has caused pain to those developer communities. I've been skeptical of GitHub because it's not an open-source platform, but have overcome that skepticism because it's one of M$'s better products. M$ is hosting that service for everyone for free, with some limitations. We would have to ask if the limitations would get in our way. Some of my recent development done collaboratively with others was on M$ GitHub. Choice of platform, then choice of self-hosting or not. The trade-offs might be different nowadays than 20 years ago.
Guy: What about GitLab, which I believe is open source?
oe: Yes, if we have someone prepared to set it up, host it, and maintain it for the next 10 years. Not me.
Alexandre: Things can change for sure, but the trend towards the cloud is because of that. No one wants to be in charge of maintaining software. Any decision made today would need to be revised in 5 years or more. But GitHub is widely used, including by people we interact with. Can apply as a research org to have some of the limitations reduced (e.g. have private repos for free). My vote to move more to the cloud (rather than to GitHub in particular).
Alexandre: Another important point is how to make it easy to self-host, like with dockers.
Olga: That's absolutely true & what oe was talking about, how he used to have those resources but now they're going away. We've been hosting the discourse server at UW for a while now. And it seems to be overall working well, except I don't feel like we have sufficient resources for tech support. We find ourselves unable to update it as regularly as it seems to require and whenever there's issues, sometimes it's down and nobody can actually attend to that properly. Oftentimes, I feel like that defeats the purpose of hosting it yourself, but it has been there for a while and we can be relatively sure it's not going away.
EMB: Two kinds of resources: hardware (that's why we can't do the WeSearch semantic graph search) and personnel (sysadmin to reboot/upgrade discourse server). On that one, we had a decision to make about short term risks (might be down) v. long term (might lose it, without control).
Olga: But disrupted communication is also a long-term problem, because it prevents people from adopting the platform.
Alexandre: GitHub wikis can also just be pulled and reinstalled somewhere else.
Francis: I'd be happy to go back to the mature technology of mailing lists, but I seem to be losing that battle.
oe: I didn't know we were in that battle together. We could have coordinated better. But the DELPH-IN mailing lists were down for a couple of days earlier (while I was on summer vacation). The problem with mailing lists is that you don't notice when they are down. I want to reduce my exposure to that kind of responsibility.
Francis: Have to be more careful in the future considering the burden on the person maintaining things. MediaWiki: has to be hosted somewhere. GitHub: for now Microsoft; can download local copies for insurance. We can't necessarily do that for e.g. semantic search.
oe: Semantic search isn't a DELPH-IN collaboration tool.
Francis: It could be! If I had easy access, would link it to ltdb, but would use in teaching.
oe: But not as central as version control & communications.
Francis: And the wiki (documentation is very important). Could put these in the DELPH-IN GitHubs ... ERG docs to ERG GitHub, LKB docs to LKB GitHub.
EMB: Don't splatter the DELPH-IN information across repositories like that.
Luis: Can just create a single wiki in the delph-in organization on GitHub. https://docs.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/about-wikis
EMB: That would be okay with me, aside from my general aversion to GitHub.
oe: Can keep the wiki for years to come. Continuing to host the wiki in its current form I can do for many more years to come. We don't have to move everything if we think what we have works well enough.
Olga: Perhaps just keeping the wiki in a frozen form, maybe no longer updated after a certain point, but it seems to be possible to just keep it for reference.
Woodley: What would were you proposing the updates would go to then?
Olga: Assuming we decide we want to use this other platform, that's just a separate question. If that happens, there's still nothing wrong with freezing the old wiki, whether parts get migrated or not, it can still remain available as is for reference.
Woodley: Maybe snapshots can be rendered to static html.
EMB: I have noticed that it's gotten slower over the years. Maybe the number of pages?
oe: Yes. It's slow even here in Oslo, so not about internet speed. To fix that would require weeding out pages. Some of which contain content we don't consider compatible with the DELPH-IN mission statement. (Result of repeated spam attacks.)
EMB: Maybe a small text classification project that an MS student could do?
Francis: GitHub wiki is not MediaWiki, it's markdown.
Alexandre: It also supports other formats.
Francis: Including MediaWiki?
Alexandre: It should.
Francis: Some discussion of problems of size in GitHub, in particular the magnificent Redwoods forest is perhaps too large (or just barely within the size limit), at present? One possibility would be to split it into smaller forests. Or to use large file support, or put it in a public open data repository like Zenodo.
oe: Just in case Dan is beginning to worry: what we are discussing are community preferences, but the individual resource should be free to pick the hosting and communication platform that they prefer. DFKI has put PET and GG in the OpenDFKI ecosystem. I'll continue to run that svn server for the foreseeable future.
EMB: Agreed that developers should get to store their software as they like, but for communication, we need critical mass on any given platform. So far we have two: mailing lists and discourse. Seems okay because people mostly know where to get whose attention. But more than that could be too separated.
oe: There's at least one more: GitHub issues.
Woodley: What are the priorities from your point of view oe, for divesting yourself of responsibility? svn and wiki not so modern, but can keep up with them.
oe: That depends on my and our joint assessment of value. In sum, I'd like reduction and specifically the public web pages... that's a separate MediaWiki with a separate MySQL. If we agree that the content there doesn't really call for public hosting anymore that would simplify infrastructure at UiO somewhat. Owning www.delph-in.net gives us flexibility. Could just go to some landing page in the current wiki.
EMB: I'm also fine with it going. We always talk about updating the public-facing web pages and then don't. I think the worry was that the internal wiki was too unpolished, but I'm not worried about it.
John: I just noticed there's no DelphinTop on the wiki. That would be a nice landing page.
oe: Should we ask for volunteers today to effectuate that transition?
EMB: Sure let's ask.
Francis: Let's wait a moment, because my suggestion is that we use a GitHub space for that.
oe: Would you volunteer?
Francis: No. How about Alexandre?
Alexandre: Sure.
oe: My understanding of how we work is that the standing committee should have a chance to discuss them & comment.
Francis: It would be polite to run it past absent members.
EMB: We also have to worry about keeping it content-wise up-to-date, no matter where we put it. Should be somewhere that we see it.
oe: Next on the list: moinmoin wiki. It's possible that UiO might say can't run python 2.7 anymore (don't foresee this, but ...) Migration of the wiki, including archival content. Is that a project we can conceivably take on?
EMB: I'm inspired by the Season of Docs idea, but that seems to be about content and not just migration, which is probably too big.
Woodley: I'm curious what the liabilities are... what's likely to go wrong with a script?
Francis: Different programs lose different things (tables, lists,...) some non-trivial number of pages would need fixing to have the same level of info available.
Woodley: Because no one has put the effort in, or because there's something tricky?
Francis: Just running one of those scripts and seeing output would be interesting, but need access to the code, so?
oe: I'd be happy make an archive available (privacy questions?) to someone who wants to invoke that script.
Woodley: It's possible to set privacy settings...
EMB: Yes, we used that this time to protect the Zoom room links, but also folks should know we'll be unprotecting the schedule page in a bit if you want to take down your video links (but prefer that you don't).
EMB: There is also the pdfs that oe has been hosting at UiO that we point to from the wiki.
oe: Yes, for at least all summits I have attended, I've been collecting the slides. That's another bit of infrastructure I didn't list.
John: Both Cambridge and Paris, all the pdfs are at Sussex.
Glenn: pdfs only?
oe: Not just pdfs.
Francis: I think that's largely doable.
Francis: Sounds like there's a general consensus encouraging people to move to git. But that's up to the individual maintainers.
Alexandre: During the conversation with Woodley, we mentioned the possibility of synchronizing svn with git and then have a clone hosted in github, and save a branch to be the sync point. This could be considered in general for some of the repositories as an intermediary stage.
oe: Does the authoritative copy remain in DELPH-IN svn, but become workable through github?
Alexandre: Yes. Pull changes from svn to the authoritative branch periodically.
Woodley: I have my blessing to the experiment of trying this with fftb. I will do development with svn, but Alexandre is going to try having a git repo that mirrors it to have the benefit of issue tracking, etc.
oe: We're not going to modernize in one 50 min discussion, or even in one year. I'd be happy for you to conduct that pilot and for others to try out M$ GitHub and report back in a year.
Home | Forum | Discussions | Events